A phone call from my mom telling me that she found our pet cockatiel Opal dead on the bottom of her cage this morning after I left for work.
She hopped up on my shoulder in the pet store, and I fell in love. I brought her home with me on what was one of the coldest January days ever, about 10 years ago.
I'm going to miss her. Even if she could be very loud and demanding, and chewed and pooped on everything, she was still a total snugglebum.
World of Warcraft: Delissandra - Blood Elf Rogue (retired) - Feathermoon
EverQuest: Delissandra Splitshadow - 75 Rogue (retired) - The Rathe
City of Heroes: Splitshadow - Scrapper (retired) - Victory
A phone call from my mom telling me that she found our pet cockatiel Opal dead on the bottom of her cage this morning after I left for work.
She hopped up on my shoulder in the pet store, and I fell in love. I brought her home with me on what was one of the coldest January days ever, about 10 years ago.
I'm going to miss her. Even if she could be very loud and demanding, and chewed and pooped on everything, she was still a total snugglebum.
That sucks. I comiserate, my bday was sucky this year too. For my birthday this year my (now ex) girlfriend decided to start doing cocaine and extasy and blow me off for 3 days in favor of a drug bender. I thought she was dead or something since she was unreachable for 3 days including my entire birthday and none of her family/ friends knew where she was.
"Injijo invented sitting down. " - Ben Franklin, 1785
We currently are petless at this moment because I refuse to get another one.
First bird little boy thought he needed some exercise and took him outside approximately 2 days after clipping it's wings but she flew like the wind. I was about 3 steps behind. Trying to catch up.
Next one was my oldest. No way to say that but they had a bond. He was like a pirate. Always had that bird on him in some way shape or form. If he took nap the bird will sleep on his stomach while he slept. Well one day he came crying to me because the bird was flopping around on the floor and it just died.
Shortly after that we replaced that one with another. He was the most playful and fun bird we ever owned. This one was on my shoulder for about 3 hours after work one day. He hopped down my arm to my desk and fell over dead.
We tested for all sorts of stuff in the home and could find nothing or any reason for the last 2 birds dying but I just don't have the heart to go through that again :(
I have not been a pet owner since the 6th grade, my mother gave away our dog because she was "too much work". Despite this, or maybe because of this, i understand pet owners. They are like your children, except they probably crap he floor and the couch LESS than my kids do.
With a dog (my pet of choice) you ALWAYS know exactly where you stand with them. There is never any doubt, no surprises and no bull. They treat you in a pretty much karma-inspired way. Treat them harshly and they will piss on your bedsheets and possibly bite at you. Treat them well and they will sacrifice everything to keep you happy and safe.
Cats are a different story, to use the con system from EQ1 you always start off "glares at you threateningly" with any one of them past the kitty stage. You have to be a seriously selfless, loving, caring saint of a person to a cat to even get to "warmly" with a cat.
Sadly, there are few people who adhere to that line of reasoning, i have had too many people screw me over after sacrificing for them. Animals? Not a single time in my 32 years here.
Oddly enough the quip posted at the top right corner of the page, which changes with every page you visit, reads as follows...
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between dog and man" - Mark Twain
On my thirteenth birthday, there was a loud banging on our door. I opened the door to find our pet cat in a golden retriever's mouth (whose owners were still standing out at the street yelling at their dog...). There was blood splattered everywhere, I immediately slammed the door and called for my parents.
Our cat ended up with a broken leg, and some gashes. The dog however died due to severe slashes in his throat (and our cat only had his back claws). The owners fought with my parents for days and tried to sue them. They promptly lost for not having their dog on a leash which was required where we lived.
That's one of the worst birthday/Christmas memories I have. I feel for you and yours, and I'm sorry for your loss.
Deflagration - Ungiggity - Jointpaper - Pö - Proctologist - Fantastical - Pandarica WoW - L a s t R i t e s - Firetree Too many to play, too little time to do it.
On my thirteenth birthday, there was a loud banging on our door. I opened the door to find our pet cat in a golden retriever's mouth (whose owners were still standing out at the street yelling at their dog...). There was blood splattered everywhere, I immediately slammed the door and called for my parents.
Our cat ended up with a broken leg, and some gashes. The dog however died due to severe slashes in his throat (and our cat only had his back claws). The owners fought with my parents for days and tried to sue them. They promptly lost for not having their dog on a leash which was required where we lived.
That's one of the worst birthday/Christmas memories I have. I feel for you and yours, and I'm sorry for your loss.
Eh? How the **** could they even attempt to sue you? Someone should have grabbed something and beat the dog to death right then and there, Im amazed that the cat actually killed it.
Master Tailor Toprem Spaztastic, level 75 Drizzlecaller of Karana. Member of Clan Ta Veren
Eh? How the **** could they even attempt to sue you? Someone should have grabbed something and beat the dog to death right then and there, Im amazed that the cat actually killed it.
When I was wee the neighbor's beagle got lose and was in my backyard where it attacked my cat. I watched my cat killed the beagle with even getting scratched. There are definatly some dangerously badass cats out there.
Cats are not to be trifled with, you have to remember what they are and what they come from, at all times. Pet one for too long an they will claw/bite/mangle the offending appendage. Some claim it's because of over-stimulation...but we all know better. Those little furry bastards are manic depressive, bipolar murder machines.
When I was wee the neighbor's beagle got lose and was in my backyard where it attacked my cat. I watched my cat killed the beagle with even getting scratched. There are definatly some dangerously badass cats out there.
This is why domesticated cats the size of a loaf of bred, while some dogs are nearly the size of a donkey. A cat the size of an average dog is just a scary thought.
Except for lions, who tackle some of the world's largest prey, cats are solitary hunters. Wild dogs hunt in packs. A single dog will never be a match for a cat the same size.
My cat Velvet was actually afraid of Opal. It was pretty funny watching them staring each other down. Every time Velvet would even twitch, Opal would spread her wings and hiss. Velvet would back off, and eventually lose interest.
Eh? How the **** could they even attempt to sue you? Someone should have grabbed something and beat the dog to death right then and there, Im amazed that the cat actually killed it.
Terrorantumunk! Terrorantumunk! Terrorantumunk! Power? Bah! Nothing happened, exactly as i expected...you superstitious primitives. What's next, human sacrifices to appease your pagan gods? HAHAHAHA! Haha...what was that noise?
*SPLORTCH*
ARRRRRGH! My arm! It has my arm! Gititoffgittitoffgittitoffgittitoffgittitoff!!!!
Damn it, Stalk, why do you do this to me? You force me to side with Top...
The dog didn't do anything wrong? He was off his leash, which was required by law in that area. The dog had a kicking, bleeding cat in its mouth, and i bet they weren't just acting out a bite fantasy.
Seriously? the dog did nothing wrong? *sighs*
Pets are generally treated as property, unless you mistreat them (at which point they have more rights than we do*), by law Drole could of picked up a fire extinguisher and turned the dog's brain into a fine paste. On his property, destroying his property, and in violation of the all-mighty leash law.
God, i feel so dirty now...
*obviously, it is hyperbole, they don't get more rights but the jail time and fines you get for animal cruelty are not to be sneered at.
Damn it, Stalk, why do you do this to me? You force me to side with Top...
The dog didn't do anything wrong? He was off his leash, which was required by law in that area. The dog had a kicking, bleeding cat in its mouth, and i bet they weren't just acting out a bite fantasy.
Seriously? the dog did nothing wrong? *sighs*
Pets are generally treated as property, unless you mistreat them (at which point they have more rights than we do*), by law Drole could of picked up a fire extinguisher and turned the dog's brain into a fine paste. On his property, destroying his property, and in violation of the all-mighty leash law.
God, i feel so dirty now...
*obviously, it is hyperbole, they don't get more rights but the jail time and fines you get for animal cruelty are not to be sneered at.
Nothing in this post points to the dog doing anything wrong. Everything in this post points to the OWNERS doing something wrong. You would beat a dog to death, for doing what is NATURAL for a CARNIVORE!!!! Unless TRAINED otherwise?
So you'd just stand there **** in hand as someone elses animal was trying to kill yours?
No, but I would not be beating the dog to death. I would be giving the OWNER a nice, long beating. Second, FFS, the cat was loose too. If you choose to have an outdoor cat, you also are relinquishing your rights, just like the dog owners do when they have their dogs offleash. Cats are amazingly destructive to the ecosystem.
Do you blink when your cat kills birds, rats, gophers, and countless other stuff while outdoors? Guess what's on a dog's prey list.
Again, the dog did nothing wrong. The owners ****ed up by having their dog off leash, and drole ****ed up by not keeping his cat indoors.
Stalk, that's pretty much an universal standard for "something wrong", even if it comes naturally to a carnivore. Back July 8th of 2007, a pitbull went into a home and proceeded to do "what comes naturally" during that time of the year, to a 2 year old toddler. Believe me, i wish i meant "bite the crap out of".
**Warning: Even though the article is devoid of graphic images and crude language, i would still not open this on a computer monitored by others...people jump to conclusions when they see "dog sexually assaults baby" in a browser history.**
I do realize this is an extreme case, only one that i could find of its type, but it shows that just because it comes naturally doesn't mean it's okay.
Stalk, that's pretty much an universal standard for "something wrong", even if it comes naturally to a carnivore. Back July 8th of 2007, a pitbull went into a home and proceeded to do "what comes naturally" during that time of the year, to a 2 year old toddler. Believe me, i wish i meant "bite the crap out of".
**Warning: Even though the article is devoid of graphic images and crude language, i would still not open this on a computer monitored by others...people jump to conclusions when they see "dog sexually assaults baby" in a browser history.**
I do realize this is an extreme case, only one that i could find of its type, but it shows that just because it comes naturally doesn't mean it's okay.
Again. The fact that the dog was allowed, by his owners, to do what is legally wrong, means the fault lies in the owner, not the dog. Beating the dog to death, as Toprem suggested, would be the most astoundingly idiotic thing I can conceive in the world. A dog that attacks, sexually or viciously, a human needs to be put down for the safety of the populance. A dog that attacks a cat, however, does not need to be put down. That is not a vicious dog, it is a normal dog. In both cases, the owners are at fault, and in only one of these cases should a dog's life be in debate.
A dog on your property destroying your property is not grounds for slaughter. Why this is so hard to conceive is beyond me. Maybe you are trying to apply moral standards to an amoral being. Maybe you are granting dogs the intelligence of having made some kind of moral decision when attacking a cat. I don't know. But seriously? You guys are justifying beating a dog to death because it's owners were idiots? Misplaced aggression much?
So if one of your dogs gets attacked you're going to let the dogs continue to fight it out while you go look for the other dog's owner to tell him what a bad job he's done training his pet? Me I'm hoping I have my steel toes on at the time and kicking the other dog in the head until it's the consistency of pudding, and worrying about the owner later. No matter whose fault it is the dog is paying the price for attacking my pet, or family.
Again. The fact that the dog was allowed, by his owners, to do what is legally wrong, means the fault lies in the owner, not the dog. Beating the dog to death, as Toprem suggested, would be the most astoundingly idiotic thing I can conceive in the world. A dog that attacks, sexually or viciously, a human needs to be put down for the safety of the populance. A dog that attacks a cat, however, does not need to be put down. That is not a vicious dog, it is a normal dog. In both cases, the owners are at fault, and in only one of these cases should a dog's life be in debate.
A dog on your property destroying your property is not grounds for slaughter. Why this is so hard to conceive is beyond me. Maybe you are trying to apply moral standards to an amoral being. Maybe you are granting dogs the intelligence of having made some kind of moral decision when attacking a cat. I don't know. But seriously? You guys are justifying beating a dog to death because it's owners were idiots? Misplaced aggression much?
Inconceivable!!!
Aside from movies like Cujo and Tom and Jerry cartoons i have not seen much of the "dogs chase cats" behavior you're relying so heavy on here. Most often i see them share space and be oddly civil to each other...as long as the food supply supports them both. Chase off of territory? Sure, all the time, the chase stops when the intruder is off the dog's piss plot. But i have yet to see dog eat a cat, ever.
Most pet owners i know treat their pets like family, and regardless of what you may think, most people would take a chainsaw to an offending animal if it had a "family member" in its jaws without so much as a first thought...much less a second.
Maybe it's just the way i see things because i live in Anchorage, Alaska. We have around 280k people here in the municipal area...we also brown bear, grizzly bear, wolves, foxes and moose. Walking out of my front door in wintertime has a very real chance of putting me face to face with something that could kill me just because i startled it.
Any creature that hunts an area and has success tends to hunt there again. I nip that crap right in the bud, i am not willing to risk a return visit from ANY animal that is large enough to pose a threat to my children. There's not much difference between a 7 month old crawling in the yard and a fat house cat strolling through the yard, size-wise.
You may call it misplaced aggression, and you may be right, but i prefer the term "proactive paranoia". I just don't take those kinds of risks when it comes to my children, and if you don't dig the way i think you can go hug a sea-kitten. >:p
Maybe it's just the way i see things because i live in Anchorage, Alaska. We have around 280k people here in the municipal area...we also brown bear, grizzly bear, wolves, foxes and moose. Walking out of my front door in wintertime has a very real chance of putting me face to face with something that could kill me just because i startled it.
QFT
Scary is not paying enough attention and ending up just a few yards away from a moose hidden by fence and trees. I love living in Anchorage partially because we have wildlife sharing the same space as us, but it sure can give you one hell of a fright.
Best moose encounter, ever? Buddy of mine and i were walking a bike trail, the stretch between Woodside and Goose Lake one day. If you're familiar with the trail you know that between Woodside and Lake Otis, the trail is elevated to keep it from flooding in the spring. Anyways, i hear a crack in the woods to my right, i look over and all i see is a wall of brown with a glassy black dot on it.
Wait...it's keeping up with us walking, and 'it' blinked. CRAP! Keep in mind, we're a foot off higher than the surrounding area and i am making eye contact with a LOT of moose meat. Eventually she slows down and we get a distance ahead before she climbs on to the trail. I say she because about 5 seconds after she climbed up...her calf followed. Yeah, we were THAT close to getting our asses ground into hoof-polish.
So we walk on, counting our blessings that little moosey decided to hang back, warning every person we passed of what was on the trail. We were passed by no less than 4 dog owners with yippy ones on leashes.
Surround a mother moose with calf in tow...with yippy dogs? Brilliant! Nothing can go wrong here!
We left before mama moose declared open season on dumbasses and pets.
By the way, not to sound TOO stalker-ish (breathes heavily...) what part of Anchor-Town are you in? The family and i live in Mountain View, though i am Fairview raised.
Last edited by Ryujee; 08-31-09 at 03:45 AM.
Reason: additional content
I don't think any reasonable pet owner would blame someone for trying to retrieve their pet that looks to be alive out of the jaws of someone else's pet, even if that may cause damage to the pet who's jaws are now being pried apart. Now I wouldn't call it a sensible plan to try to get your cat out of a strange dog's mouth since that's not what I'd consider remotely safe, but I would certainly understand it on an emotional level and not blame the owner for reacting in such a way. People do seem to treat their pets almost like children, a instinct to just lunge in to save their pet, I can understand it. If there's a chance to save it. Now if the owner of the dog is just standing by while the cat is being used as a chew toy, well, that's never going to go over well. Either you're boss enough that you can get that animal out of the pet's mouth, which might be a very sensible plan for your dog's safety if the other animal's owner is seeing their still living animal there... or poor Fluffy, despite being a 'big character' to the rest of your family, is most likely going to the big doggie playyard in the sky. Just as it's understandable that a dog has a prey drive, it's understandable that pet owners feels very protective towards their animal - sometimes to a point where the rest of us are going 'oh for ****'s sake'.
If it's clearly dead then well, not much more you can do. So no, at that point if you try to remove the cat forcibly from the dog's mouth... not a good idea and well... it's dead, it's not like it can get more dead by waiting for the dog to let go or for you to get the owner to control the animal to retrieve the carcass.
Yeah, he was definitely an inside cat. (He had gotten out into our back yard... I think I mentioned this in another topic but our dog was exceptional at opening the sliding door, not so much for closing it...)
Now obviously I didn't beat the **** out of the animal or anything. But on that subject, living in the same house, we had people next to us with an albino wolf mix of some sort.
That dog bit the nose off their three year old. The police put that dog down on the spot (while fighting off the owners).
I'm sorry, but an animal that causes harm to other animals or endangers human life forfeits it's right to live. We keep domesticated animals, not wild, uncontrollable ones.
Yes, this can be blamed on the owner's neglect, but it doesn't make the situation any less true.
Ah, yes...the snout of a nose. From "talk me out of this". Yeah, i fee la bit dumb now, didn't even realize it was the same person *hangs head in shame*. my bad...
So if one of your dogs gets attacked you're going to let the dogs continue to fight it out while you go look for the other dog's owner to tell him what a bad job he's done training his pet? Me I'm hoping I have my steel toes on at the time and kicking the other dog in the head until it's the consistency of pudding, and worrying about the owner later. No matter whose fault it is the dog is paying the price for attacking my pet, or family.
Sir, I don't think these things are like you imagine them to be. My dogs HAVE been attacked before. It never required "beating the other dog to death". It required getting the dogs under control by separating them. The only way to "beat a dog to death" is by some sick and disgusting post-catalyst abuse. Perhaps people here conceive themselves able to kill a dog with a punch or two or something, I do not know. That is laughably idiotic. By the time you're ever in a position to harm the dog, the fight (whether in between dogs, cats, or other wild animals) would be long since over and under control. So you would just be acting out some misplaced revenge, not protecting those you may have lost.
When my dogs have gotten into a fight, I get the fight under control, and once it is under control, I go talk to the owners. Why it is you people's first reaction to kill an animal, is beyond me. This is civility, not some kind of barbariac world of the past.
Aside from movies like Cujo and Tom and Jerry cartoons i have not seen much of the "dogs chase cats" behavior you're relying so heavy on here. Most often i see them share space and be oddly civil to each other...as long as the food supply supports them both. Chase off of territory? Sure, all the time, the chase stops when the intruder is off the dog's piss plot. But i have yet to see dog eat a cat, ever.
It's not "dogs chase cats" behavior. It's PREY DRIVE. ALL dogs have this in one form or another, unless raised around cats. My dog, Kobe, has a nutty prey drive. However, he has been around cats all his life. When my cats run away from him, he bolts right after them and stops them with his mouth. Once he is stopped, he looks around confused unsure of what he was doing. Why you question whether dogs have prey drive is difficult for me to comprehend. Maybe you only see dogs under control (leashed) and the only other ones are your neighborhood friendly ones raised around cats. I don't know. But dogs with prey drive is the norm, dogs without is the oddity.
You may call it misplaced aggression, and you may be right, but i prefer the term "proactive paranoia". I just don't take those kinds of risks when it comes to my children, and if you don't dig the way i think you can go hug a sea-kitten. >:p
You are not taking any risks, when the event is under control. I am confused, again, why in the scenario outlined above where the owners of the dog are clearly at fault, you are willing to get the fight under control, stop, then beat the dog to death afterwards, but are unwilling to "take a chainsaw" to the owners who are the ones at fault for not leashing their dog.
Or are you just one of those people who are all big and tough, getting off on beating defenseless animals when there's no legal or, for some god damned reason, moral consequence to it, instead of taking your fight to the owners who allowed their animal to kill yours? I mean really. It is disgusting that you guys are willing to slaughter an animal, but unwilling to slaughter the owners who are at fault. Not that I advocate "beating the owners to death" or "taking a chainsaw to them". But really, if you're going to do either, don't be a ball-less coward and do it to the right person.
Now obviously I didn't beat the **** out of the animal or anything. But on that subject, living in the same house, we had people next to us with an albino wolf mix of some sort.
That dog bit the nose off their three year old. The police put that dog down on the spot (while fighting off the owners).
I'm sorry, but an animal that causes harm to other animals or endangers human life forfeits it's right to live. We keep domesticated animals, not wild, uncontrollable ones.
Yes, this can be blamed on the owner's neglect, but it doesn't make the situation any less true.
I have never once disagreed with the scenario. Dogs are domesticated animals, and if they don't act as such, they need to be removed from the human population. It is a sad fact, but it is true. However, domesticated means t hat they have been trained for thousands of years to live and get along with humans. Prey such as cats, mice, birds, etc are a whole different ballgame. They have NOT been bred to get along with those.
You are comparing people and animals that is why I'm not willing to beat a human. And it's not some deranged revenge fantasy it's preventative medicine. A dog that will attack my cat is a dog that could/may attack my child.
Sir, I don't think these things are like you imagine them to be. My dogs HAVE been attacked before. It never required "beating the other dog to death". It required getting the dogs under control by separating them. The only way to "beat a dog to death" is by some sick and disgusting post-catalyst abuse. Perhaps people here conceive themselves able to kill a dog with a punch or two or something, I do not know. That is laughably idiotic. By the time you're ever in a position to harm the dog, the fight (whether in between dogs, cats, or other wild animals) would be long since over and under control. So you would just be acting out some misplaced revenge, not protecting those you may have lost.
When my dogs have gotten into a fight, I get the fight under control, and once it is under control, I go talk to the owners. Why it is you people's first reaction to kill an animal, is beyond me. This is civility, not some kind of barbariac world of the past.
It's not "dogs chase cats" behavior. It's PREY DRIVE. ALL dogs have this in one form or another, unless raised around cats. My dog, Kobe, has a nutty prey drive. However, he has been around cats all his life. When my cats run away from him, he bolts right after them and stops them with his mouth. Once he is stopped, he looks around confused unsure of what he was doing. Why you question whether dogs have prey drive is difficult for me to comprehend. Maybe you only see dogs under control (leashed) and the only other ones are your neighborhood friendly ones raised around cats. I don't know. But dogs with prey drive is the norm, dogs without is the oddity.
You are not taking any risks, when the event is under control. I am confused, again, why in the scenario outlined above where the owners of the dog are clearly at fault, you are willing to get the fight under control, stop, then beat the dog to death afterwards, but are unwilling to "take a chainsaw" to the owners who are the ones at fault for not leashing their dog.
Or are you just one of those people who are all big and tough, getting off on beating defenseless animals when there's no legal or, for some god damned reason, moral consequence to it, instead of taking your fight to the owners who allowed their animal to kill yours? I mean really. It is disgusting that you guys are willing to slaughter an animal, but unwilling to slaughter the owners who are at fault. Not that I advocate "beating the owners to death" or "taking a chainsaw to them". But really, if you're going to do either, don't be a ball-less coward and do it to the right person.
I have never once disagreed with the scenario. Dogs are domesticated animals, and if they don't act as such, they need to be removed from the human population. It is a sad fact, but it is true. However, domesticated means t hat they have been trained for thousands of years to live and get along with humans. Prey such as cats, mice, birds, etc are a whole different ballgame. They have NOT been bred to get along with those.
Inconceivable!!!
I have not mentioned actions against the owners, come to think about it...i have not mentioned them at all. They are, up to the point that originally got your panties in a wad, not active members in the scenario. They're in the street, that's a good 15-25 feet from the scenario being discussed.
Prey drive, chase cat, cruise control...call it what you want, doesn't change the fact that aside from "Fetch" i don't think i have ever seen it. I never questioned its existence, i only stated that it has not been something i have observed with enough regularity to merit a cat attack.
Also, i don't believe i ever mentioned killing anything or anyone AFTER a situation is under control, that would be silly. In Drole's original post, the cat and dog were still actively engaged, blood everywhere, cat kicking...that's chaos, not a controlled enviroment, thus there is risk. Toprem's posts both state immediate action as well, not a delayed calculated 'murder' of an animal.
Nice of you to keep quoting the chainsaw comment out of context, but do try and read the words after it.
*most people would take a chainsaw to an offending animal if it had a "family member" in its jaws *
Again, it doesn't just imply, it outright states an immediate reaction (though i don't know too many people who tote a fueled chainsaw around on a daily basis). While i did leave out "writhing in agony", i thought that ALIVE would be assumed. This all started over a cat, but it sure as hell wasn't Schrodinger's, there was no uncertainty to the state of life of said feline.
Feel free to call me all the names you want...sticks and stones will break my bones but the internet will never hurt me (except emotionally...but we all know about Tubgirl already). The deliberate, calculated, cold-blooded killing of an animal was not brought up by anyone. Well, anyone aside from you. I have no desire to kill anything i am not going to eat, that's why i dislike fishing with my stepdad...i catch 2 and am done, for the year.
You assume way too much, Stalk, you're jumping from what was understood to be the current tense to a future tense. Often. To be clear, i don't beat defenseless animals, that's what anti-freeze is for*. Furthermore, to call 65 pounds of teeth and muscle "defenseless" is laughable. While lacking the same bite power as a pit bull or shepherd, a goldie can deliver a hell of a bite and you wont go anywhere they don't LET you. I've played tug-of-war with enough goldies to know that is a fight i am NOT going to win easily, if at all.
I don't mind being told i am wrong, i am man enough to admit i am flawed, but don't invent stuff up on the spot. If you're going to engage in a debate i humbly implore that you stay on the same page as the rest of us.
* Obviously, the anti-freeze comment was meant only to get under Stalk's skin, only a total smeg head would do such a thing.
Suggesting that you agreed with Toprem's suggestion.
That is all that Stalk has taken issue with: Toprem's usual Troll-based internet tough guy knee-jerk response.
Whoops, you're right, my bad. So Top did mention killing the dog, but in your own words it was a knee-jerk response from him. That hardly qualifies for deliberate or calculated.
Of course i had to agree with Top there, 2 legged, 4 legged, 8 legged, i don't care...you threaten me or mine and you have to go. With that said, i think a lot more agree than dare be associated with him >.<
Last edited by Ryujee; 08-31-09 at 09:54 AM.
Reason: added content
By the way, not to sound TOO stalker-ish (breathes heavily...) what part of Anchor-Town are you in? The family and i live in Mountain View, though i am Fairview raised.
Kewl beanz! I have a friend whose house we play D&D at over in your neck of the woods, i hope i have not cut you off in traffic before. I sort of drive like an ass >.<
You are comparing people and animals that is why I'm not willing to beat a human. And it's not some deranged revenge fantasy it's preventative medicine. A dog that will attack my cat is a dog that could/may attack my child.
Oh. My. God.
You did NOT just say that.
Ho-ly ****. That's just a-may-zing.
Just out of curiousity. When you look at a cat that chased down mice, birds, etc and kill, eat them. Did you look at it and go, wow, that cat might kill my baby, I'm gonna kill it!
No. A dog is DOMESTICATED. Domesticated means they were made to live along with HUMANS. Nowhere in this equation did other animals come into play. Aidden's dogs likely can hunt and retreive ducks with the best of 'em, and I would gladly trust any kids I may have around his dogs.
It is astounding anyone can be so ignorant about dogs, when they live in what? 50% of the houses in America? Geezus. Most dogs would catch a wild animal and kill it given half a chance, much like cats. That has nothing, NOTHING, whatsoever to do with humans.
Inconceivable!!!
I have not mentioned actions against the owners, come to think about it...i have not mentioned them at all. They are, up to the point that originally got your panties in a wad, not active members in the scenario. They're in the street, that's a good 15-25 feet from the scenario being discussed.
That's where your confusion is. The fact that the owners had the dog off leash, 100% absolutely legally, morally, and anything that ends with "lly", is completely and utterly their fault. The dog that attacked the cat, is not subject to the morals of humans. Subduing the dog, I have no issue with. Stopping it, violently forcing your cat out of it's mouth, etc. Yes, that is reasonable. Killing it? no. The people to be punished in this situation is the owners, the dog is the victim. If my own dog attacked someone's animal, I would pay the price for it. Not because of something silly like the being more important than humans. But because I am the one responsible for him, and I am the one who allowed my dog to be in a situation to harm another.
Prey drive, chase cat, cruise control...call it what you want, doesn't change the fact that aside from "Fetch" i don't think i have ever seen it. I never questioned its existence, i only stated that it has not been something i have observed with enough regularity to merit a cat attack.
Your observation is silly. Fetch is a prey drive. Schutzhund dogs are trained using their prey drive. Greyhound racing is using prey drive. Hunting dogs use prey drive. Sled dogs use prey drive. So let's see. Herding dogs use prey drive. So let's see. In all these sports, the popular dogs would be as follows: German Shepherds, Labrador Retreivers, Pit Bulls, Siberian Huskies, Alaskan Malamutes, various collies, Greyhounds, Pointers, Belgian Malinoises. Wow, all of which are the most popular breeds in the USA!! And combined, probably make up over 75% of household dogs!! That sure is a lot of dogs with prey drive.
Here's a test for you. Go to the dog park with a squirrel. Drop it in the middle of the park. Watch how many chase! And after you do that, try to make it to your car as the angry dog owners are chasing you screaming bloody murder.
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Also, i don't believe i ever mentioned killing anything or anyone AFTER a situation is under control, that would be silly. In Drole's original post, the cat and dog were still actively engaged, blood everywhere, cat kicking...that's chaos, not a controlled enviroment, thus there is risk. Toprem's posts both state immediate action as well, not a delayed calculated 'murder' of an animal.[/quote]
The only way to kill a dog in that situation is to do it after the situation is controlled. Dogs are not so fragile you can kill them so easily. I mean seriously, there's probably a dog fight 1-2 times a day at the dog park. We break it up all the time, and safely. Unless the dog is posessed by satan himself, it is a simple matter to break up a fight with dogs. ****, I've seen 120 pound women break up a fight between a 100 pound Lab and a 90 pound pit bull with ease, and safely. If that doesn't tell you anything, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you guys have never broken up a dog fight before or something. It's possible you guys think it's like breaking up world war 2 or something. I have no idea, it would explain a lot of the misconception here. But I can break up a fight between 2 100 pound dogs blindfolded. It is not rocket science, and it is not very dangerous.
*most people would take a chainsaw to an offending animal if it had a "family member" in its jaws *
Again, it doesn't just imply, it outright states an immediate reaction (though i don't know too many people who tote a fueled chainsaw around on a daily basis). While i did leave out "writhing in agony", i thought that ALIVE would be assumed. This all started over a cat, but it sure as hell wasn't Schrodinger's, there was no uncertainty to the state of life of said feline.
Yes, most people would do whatever it takes to protect their animals. Let me illustrate something for you. One time, my puppy, Priscilla got attacked by someone's dog while on a walk. My dog was leashed, theirs was not. Do you know what I did? I took a cha-- er no, no I did not do that. Being the sensible person I am, in my panic my first immedate reaction was to grab the dog from behind, where the back legs were, and the furthest point from it's mouth. I lifted his legs up, which made him turn from Priscilla, then I gave him a good ol' toss.
Then I body blocked him from my dog. Once that was accomplished, and the owner got control of their dog. Guess who was on the recieving end of my yelling? The god damned owners. Not the dog. That the dog felt some need to protect it's territory, or protect it's family, or was dog aggressive, and so on is not the dog's fault. It is the humans who own him who did not keep it under control. And THEY are to blame.
Feel free to call me all the names you want...sticks and stones will break my bones but the internet will never hurt me (except emotionally...but we all know about Tubgirl already). The deliberate, calculated, cold-blooded killing of an animal was not brought up by anyone. Well, anyone aside from you. I have no desire to kill anything i am not going to eat, that's why i dislike fishing with my stepdad...i catch 2 and am done, for the year.
It WAS brought up, and not by me.
You assume way too much, Stalk, you're jumping from what was understood to be the current tense to a future tense. Often. To be clear, i don't beat defenseless animals, that's what anti-freeze is for*. Furthermore, to call 65 pounds of teeth and muscle "defenseless" is laughable. While lacking the same bite power as a pit bull or shepherd, a goldie can deliver a hell of a bite and you wont go anywhere they don't LET you. I've played tug-of-war with enough goldies to know that is a fight i am NOT going to win easily, if at all.
A dog that kills small animals out of prey drive =/= a dog that will viciously attack you. A do you know what would happen if you beat most dogs raised around humans? I do. I worked in dog rescue for a long ass time. Their first reaction? To flee from you. Their second reaction? in 95% of dogs? No, not fight. They will submit, freeze, and take the beating from you. This trait is a million times stronger in a dog like a golden. If you beat a Golden or a Lab, you are more likely to get pissed all over than to get bitten. And if you think I'm joking about getting peed over, you are wrong. The dogs will roll on their back, freeze up, and piss everywhere to show it's submitting to you. Which is what will happen if you start beating it.
That, sir, is a defenseless animal. The golden above, showed no threat to any human life whatsoever.
* Obviously, the anti-freeze comment was meant only to get under Stalk's skin, only a total smeg head would do such a thing.
The only thing that is under my skin right now, is that people seem to be talking abuse, killing, and stuff to break up a situation that everyday joe blow dog owner deals with, normally, at dog parks. I am mostly astounded by the lack of common sense here. I see small, frail old women break up dog fights. How beating dogs to death, or hurting them, and so on come into play, on a website where most people are generally intelligent, came into play is beyond me.
I'm sorry Stalk I must have imagined all the stories of children being mauled by dogs, and completely ignored all the stories about children being killed by house cats.
I'm sorry Stalk I must have imagined all the stories of children being mauled by dogs, and completely ignored all the stories about children being killed by house cats.
Congratulations, you made an abstract statement. When you explain what that has to do with a dog that hunts animals, with 95% of all dogs in the planet would do given the opportunity unless trained, then maybe we will have something for me to answer.
Congratulations, you made an abstract statement. When you explain what that has to do with a dog that hunts animals, with 95% of all dogs in the planet would do given the opportunity unless trained, then maybe we will have something for me to answer.
Maybe I was too abstract since you were tried to say in your last post that I should fear for a child life when I see my cat hunting a mouse. While cats seem to be more productive hunters I have no fear what so ever that my cat is going to ever harm a human.
Look I understand that what you are saying. But I have no sympathy for dogs who's owners allow them to run free and harm other people's animals. As a kid I had rabbits and my neighbors had dobermans. You ever hear a rabbit scream while it's being pulled through the holes in it's hutch? There was no chase response there because the rabbits were trapped in a hutch and couldn't run anywhere.
Maybe I was too abstract since you were tried to say in your last post that I should fear for a child life when I see my cat hunting a mouse. While cats seem to be more productive hunters I have no fear what so ever that my cat is going to ever harm a human.
Look I understand that what you are saying. But I have no sympathy for dogs who's owners allow them to run free and harm other people's animals. As a kid I had rabbits and my neighbors had dobermans. You ever hear a rabbit scream while it's being pulled through the holes in it's hutch? There was no chase response there because the rabbits were trapped in a hutch and couldn't run anywhere.
You think that dogs are able to comprehend that kind of thing? They see small furry things. If it runs it triggers a chase response. But if it doesn't run it's still a squeaking little furry thing that smells like food. Dogs were bred to, well, not see humans as food. Why you are surprised that a carnivore is acting like a carnivore is something I do not understand. They were bred selectively to get along with humans. Nobody ever tried to breed out, well, the desire to eat. That sounds like all kinds of castrophe. it was not until less than 100 years ago that dogs ate dog food. They ate animals they caught, or that they helped humans catch, at that time.
It is difficult for me to understand how you associate the two. Being provactive and not letting your children interact with strange dogs is a normal thing to do. Killing dogs that, well, hunt for food, and equally, do not see humans as food... is incomprehensible.
If you showed me a humongous list of stories of dogs that maul and EAT humans, then maybe, just maybe, I would concede the slightest association between a dog that captures and eats, or even captures without intention to eat, a prey animal.
But I can assure you right now, that all those maulings you speak of, are going to be of territorial dogs, of human aggressive dogs who have learned the behavior of aggression towards humans = humans go away, and a variety of stuff. And yes, I would also agree that those dogs need to be put down.
However, that has absolutely no connection whatsoever to prey instinct which all dogs in existence have.
