I saw this ranger sitting down behind a tree so i go infront of him and perf him.... here is the log of the fight.
[19:48:21] You target [Ryushihan]
[19:48:21] You examine Ryushihan. He is a member of an enemy realm!
[19:48:28] You enter combat mode and target [Ryushihan]
[19:48:28] You prepare to perform a Perforate Artery!
[19:48:28] You perform your Perforate Artery perfectly. (+1108)
[19:48:28] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 831 (-551) damage!
[19:48:28] You critical hit for an additional 249 damage!
[19:48:28] A crystal shield covers Ryushihan's skin.
[19:48:28] Ryushihan looks weaker!
[19:48:28] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 86 (-55) damage!
[19:48:28] You critical hit for an additional 12 damage!
[19:48:28] A barrier absorbs 49 damage of your attack!
[19:48:28] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:28] You hit Ryushihan for 52 damage!
[19:48:28] A dark shroud covers Ryushihan and slowly absorbs into their skin!
[19:48:28] You are no longer hidden!
[19:48:28] Ryushihan is bleeding!
[19:48:28] You hit Ryushihan for 5 damage!
[19:48:29] You prepare to perform a Creeping Death!
[19:48:30] You perform your Creeping Death perfectly. (+242)
[19:48:30] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 310 (-198) damage!
[19:48:30] You critical hit for an additional 89 damage!
[19:48:30] A barrier absorbs 200 damage of your attack!
[19:48:30] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 59 (-38) damage!
[19:48:30] Ryushihan cannot seem to move!
[19:48:31] You prepare to perform a Stunning Stab!
[19:48:32] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:32] You hit Ryushihan for 53 damage!
[19:48:32] Ryushihan is too far away to attack!
[19:48:33] Ryushihan is bleeding!
[19:48:33] You hit Ryushihan for 4 damage!
[19:48:33] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 84 (-54) damage!
[19:48:33] Ryushihan evades your attack!
[19:48:33] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[19:48:33] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:33] Ryushihan hits you for 170 damage.
[19:48:33] Ryushihan does 7 extra damage to you!
[19:48:33] Ryushihan hits you for 7 damage.
[19:48:34] You are now preparing to perform a Hamstring style as a backup for Garrote!
[19:48:35] You have already selected your styles for this round!
[19:48:35] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+63)
[19:48:35] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 101 (-65) damage!
[19:48:35] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 35 (-23) damage!
[19:48:35] Ryushihan begins moving more slowly!
[19:48:35] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:35] Ryushihan hits you for 225 damage.
[19:48:35] Ryushihan does 5 extra damage to you!
[19:48:35] Ryushihan hits you for 5 damage.
[19:48:35] Your attacks are slowed by an unseen force!
[19:48:35] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:35] You hit Ryushihan for 50 damage!
[19:48:36] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:36] You are now preparing to perform a Achilles Heel style as a backup for Hamstring!
[19:48:37] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+158)
[19:48:37] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 185 (-118) damage!
[19:48:37] A crystal shield covers Ryushihan's skin.
[19:48:37] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 44 (-28) damage!
[19:48:37] You critical hit for an additional 11 damage!
[19:48:37] A barrier absorbs 27 damage of your attack!
[19:48:37] A crystal shield covers you.
[19:48:37] Ryushihan can't attack as fast as normal!
[19:48:37] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:37] Your melee buffer absorbs 50 damage and dissipates!
[19:48:37] Ryushihan hits you for 95 damage.
[19:48:37] Ryushihan does 10 extra damage to you!
[19:48:37] Ryushihan hits you for 10 damage.
[19:48:37] Ryushihan is bleeding!
[19:48:37] You hit Ryushihan for 3 damage!
[19:48:38] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:38] You are now preparing to perform a Garrote style as a backup for Hamstring!
[19:48:39] Ryushihan is not in view!
[19:48:39] You auto-stick Celt.
[19:48:39] You are no longer auto-following your target.
[19:48:40] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:40] You hit Ryushihan for 53 damage!
[19:48:40] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 68 (-43) damage!
[19:48:40] A barrier absorbs 34 damage of your attack!
[19:48:40] A crystal shield covers Ryushihan's skin.
[19:48:40] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 38 (-24) damage!
[19:48:40] A barrier absorbs 19 damage of your attack!
[19:48:40] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:40] Ryushihan hits you for 196 damage.
[19:48:40] Ryushihan does 9 extra damage to you!
[19:48:40] Ryushihan hits you for 9 damage.
[19:48:40] A crystal shield covers you.
[19:48:40] Ryushihan attacks you with his dagger!
[19:48:40] Your melee buffer absorbs 47 damage!
[19:48:40] Ryushihan hits you for 47 damage.
[19:48:40] Ryushihan does 7 extra damage to you!
[19:48:40] Ryushihan hits you for 7 damage.
[19:48:40] Your attacks are slowed by an unseen force!
[19:48:41] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:41] You are now preparing to perform a Garrote style as a backup for Hamstring!
[19:48:42] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:42] Your melee buffer absorbs 53 damage and dissipates!
[19:48:42] Ryushihan hits you for 117 damage.
[19:48:42] Ryushihan does 7 extra damage to you!
[19:48:42] Ryushihan hits you for 7 damage.
[19:48:42] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+113)
[19:48:43] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 156 (-100) damage!
[19:48:43] A barrier absorbs 78 damage of your attack!
[19:48:43] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 33 (-21) damage!
[19:48:43] A barrier absorbs 3 damage of your attack!
[19:48:43] Ryushihan begins moving more slowly!
[19:48:43] Ryushihan is bleeding!
[19:48:43] You hit Ryushihan for 3 damage!
[19:48:44] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:44] You hit Ryushihan for 53 damage!
[19:48:44] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:44] You are now preparing to perform a Achilles Heel style as a backup for Hamstring!
[19:48:45] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+132)
[19:48:45] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 154 (-99) damage!
[19:48:45] You attack Ryushihan with your axe and hit for 32 (-20) damage!
[19:48:45] You critical hit for an additional 4 damage!
[19:48:45] Ryushihan can't attack as fast as normal!
[19:48:45] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:45] You evade Ryushihan's attack!
[19:48:45] Ryushihan attacks you with his dagger!
[19:48:45] You evade Ryushihan's attack!
[19:48:46] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:47] You auto-stick Celt.
[19:48:47] Ryushihan is too far away to attack!
[19:48:47] Ryushihan casts a spell!
[19:48:47] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:47] You hit Ryushihan for 53 damage!
[19:48:47] Ryushihan is bleeding!
[19:48:47] You hit Ryushihan for 2 damage!
[19:48:49] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:49] Ryushihan misses!
[19:48:49] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:49] You are no longer auto-following your target.
[19:48:49] You can't enter combat mode while riding! <---- This is where he used Forceful Zephyr
[19:48:49] You can't enter combat mode while on a horse or boat!
[19:48:52] You can't use that ability while riding!
[19:48:53] Ryushihan shoots you with his bow!
[19:48:53] Ryushihan hits you for 455 damage.
[19:48:53] Ryushihan does 9 extra damage to you!
[19:48:53] Ryushihan hits you for 9 damage.
[19:48:53] You hit Ryushihan for 1 damage!
[19:48:56] You dismiss Ryushihan.
[19:48:56] Ryushihan shoots you with his bow!
[19:48:56] Ryushihan hits you for 467 damage.
[19:48:56] Ryushihan does 7 extra damage to you!
[19:48:56] Ryushihan hits you for 7 damage.
[19:48:58] You hit Ryushihan for 0 damage!
[19:48:59] You prepare to sprint!
[19:49:00] Ryushihan shoots you with his bow!
[19:49:00] Ryushihan hits you for 518 damage.
[19:49:00] Ayron was just killed by Ryushihan!
[19:49:00] Your Strength has decreased.
[19:49:00] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[19:49:00] Your Constitution has decreased.
[19:49:00] Your hits have decreased.
[19:49:00] Your strength returns to normal.
[19:49:00] Your Strength has decreased.
[19:49:00] Your Constitution has decreased.
[19:49:00] Your hits have decreased.
[19:49:00] Your Dexterity has decreased.
[19:49:00] Your Quickness has decreased.
[19:49:00] You have died. Type /release to return to your last bind point.
[19:49:00] You died fighting for your realm and lose no experience!
[19:49:03] You will now release automatically in 8 more seconds!
[19:49:04] You are no longer ready to sprint.
[19:49:05] Ryushihan waves to you.
[19:49:06] Ryushihan hugs you.
[19:49:10] You release your corpse unto death.
[19:49:10] Your surroundings suddenly change!
Yes, Master Level abilities are, indeed, quite stupid. They were not supposed to effect small scale battles that much, instead providing a more noticable effect in large scale. I don't know how they thought Forceful Zephyr or Brittle Guard would be more effective in large scale than small scale, especially considering how much they change solo fights.
Despite the use of the ML ability, I think it is sad that a CS specced assassin can get a perf chain off on a sitting target and not kill the target before the perf chain ends.
What was shown above is how most of my fights with rangers of decent RR go. Attack and proceed to get beat down.
Yeah. Pretty much that fight should have been near impossible to lose. Maybe if he fumbled Creeping Death I'd chalk it up to bad luck, but this is just silly.
The problem i'm having right now with Forceful Zephyr is the fact that they can use it while in combat and the fact that they can shoot the person who has been Zephyred and it isn't even purgable.
I had the same thing happen to me the other day......not once but twice. The first time I did the perforate chain and at the end of it he used the forceful Zephyr on me but my traitors dagger had proc’d so he couldn’t shoot me but instead started running (some random ranger in the area greased the dude). Second time I didn’t perforate the guy but instead chased him down, he was to far away from where I was to stealth over. , I hit him with the side stun “Ice Storm” and 4 seconds later was floating in a sea of stupidity. I would be dead but the dude started running for some reason...maybe my fearsome reputation. Hahahahahah I can’t even say that with a straight face.
The ability, much like most of the ML abilities, are not very well thought out and makes me wonder if the guys who come up with this crap actually play the game; and if they do play the game is it different than the one I play? I think designers play the game how they’d like it to be instead of like normal people who look for every possible advantage which often flies in the face of what was intended.
He had to have. Because after adding it up three times it appears to me as if you dealt ~2500 damage prior to using FZ. Very few heavy tanks can take that kind of damage without IP or moose, or some sort of a spell, while he dealt ~2290 to you during the entire fight over 3/4 of which were after FZ.
I'm not passing judgement, just saying somethign is missing. No ranger can take that damage without something backing them up (be it RA's, heals, potions, etc)
Can you reedit the original logs and repost? Or explain the descrepency?
One consideration on hits is that the ranger is a celt, though I don't know how many hits rangers normally have. Also if the log was from this weekend, FA was broken and combat useable as I recall.
My ranger is a celt ranger, with red buffs (300 con) and +36 over hits cap I have 1876 hits.
First aid heals me for ~276; Using FA 2(RA specced for Artifact leveling atm) on a friends hero FA 2 is like ~800, so that is a possibility, the only spell I see cast by the ranger is FZ
The firbolg hero I mentioned has approximately 2400 hits fully buffed and ~3600 with moose.... Edited by: sentania at: 4/20/04 11:30 am
He had to have. Because after adding it up three times it appears to me as if you dealt ~2500 damage prior to using FZ. Very few heavy tanks can take that kind of damage without IP or moose, or some sort of a spell, while he dealt ~2290 to you during the entire fight over 3/4 of which were after FZ.
I'm not passing judgement, just saying somethign is missing. No ranger can take that damage without something backing them up (be it RA's, heals, potions, etc)
Can you reedit the original logs and repost? Or explain the descrepency?
Yes he did use IP. Sorry I forgot to mention that in first post just got home.
My main focus is about Forceful Zephyr. The lack of critical strike style damage in comparision to the rangers melee is of concern of course, but not my gripe. FZ is on a 2 min re-use timer so it's not like the archer won't have it up. The only offset is if they are of that ML lvl/path. Give it time and the obvious advantages and it won't be long before nearly all have it.
By my math I did 2,912 damage total to him counting bleeds, poison, dmg sheild etc.
He did 2,354 in return which means I did 558dmg more.
I think you're missing my point about what is wrong with FZ Sentania. The only reason IP comes into play that it may have saved him is because i got such a huge advantage at the begning with him sitting. If he hadn't been sitting he would have never needed to use IP and could of just as easily won using just FZ.
If you notice he got off 3 arrows while I was FZ'd and he did 1,456 damage to me. I was roughly 1200+ range away from him when FZ was over. This obviously gives the archer more then enough advantage to get 2 more arrows off easily killing the assassin. Ayron Erebus
<Fate> Iseult
50 Shadowblade
Looks to me that with out FZ he would have beaten the guy despite the fact he IP’ed. Look at the amount of time he was immobile and the damage the guy did during that time.
Zarleen I get the point of the post because I have PAed an archer (who TSed none the less) and I moved in and got off PA before he could shoot, then he sweeps me away plucks me with a few arrows and by the time I'm back to him it was the same scenario, he does almost 1000 dmg and my pa does a whole 350 or so.
I had no idea this was on a 2 min timer, man with that and PD and perma TS in fontiers archers are gonna own us assassins...
One thing that I'm not clear on is how he got FZ off on you in the first place. It doesn't work in melee range; you need to be a few paces away from the target to fire it off. If you were close enough to be hitting him, you should have been too close for FZ to effect you.
Quote:
[19:48:47] You auto-stick Celt.
[19:48:47] Ryushihan is too far away to attack!
[19:48:47] Ryushihan casts a spell!
[19:48:47] Ryushihan is poisoned!
[19:48:47] You hit Ryushihan for 53 damage!
[19:48:47] Ryushihan is bleeding!
[19:48:47] You hit Ryushihan for 2 damage!
[19:48:49] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
[19:48:49] Ryushihan misses!
[19:48:49] You prepare to perform a Hamstring!
[19:48:49] You are no longer auto-following your target.
[19:48:49] You can't enter combat mode while riding! <---- This is where he used Forceful Zephyr
Notice that Ryushihan got to far away to attack, then he cast a spell and then he reentered melee range.
Obviously he turned Tail and ran, and then cast FZ...
After rereading it you were fully able to avoid FZ but you just didn't...
There's a few thousand ways the Ranger could've gotten a little range to fire off FZ before zarlaan could react.
Like the instant ranger speed burst.
Or even just a sudden burst of sprinting.
Or if he used a combat style that snares.
But it was most likely a "sprint, run through, use lag to get distance" given the short period of time between Zarlaan's last attack and the use of FZ, and the lack of any "Ranger casts a spell" message (except the one that appears when he used FZ).
No Sentenia I was not fully able to avoid it. If I was fully able to avoid it I would have. Besides in the heat of combat it's not like you have a chance to read every single line of combat thats going by for you to stop and say oh oh he's casintg FZ I need to move.
He got it off because he lagged thru me or ran when I /stuck to him. Soon as i turned around it was already casted.
Any way you want to put it FZ in its current form against 1 on 1 is overpowering in more ways then one. It essentially allows an archer to kill with impunity every 2 minutes. If this ability only worked somehow if there were more then 1 target I could careless. But, in this type of situation that being 1 on 1 the primary choice for most assassins i would imagine it is overpowered.
There is absolutly nothing at all you can do to prevent it other then already being at a far enough distance from the archer that you have at least some sort of chance to see FZ coming at you and moving. BTW the FZ is invisible all you see is a yellow name tag..... not exactly the easiest of things to see.
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"After rereading it you were fully able to avoid FZ but you just didn't..."
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Read the timestamps:
[19:48:49] Ryushihan attacks you with his axe!
.
.
[19:48:49] You can't enter combat mode while riding!
He attacked and cast FZ in the *same second*. There is no way in hell anyone could possibly react to avoid FZ in less than a second. Not with the common internet lag.
Maybe FZ should be assigned a cast time. The same that Tanglesnare has sounds fine to me.
Ah yes, i see it. However that doesn't change the fact there was no time to react.
The ranger cast FZ and continued to melee right away, even landing another hit before the zephyr could grab the SB. That indicates he left the melee range only for a split second, as is usually caused by lagging through an opponent. There is not really a way to prevent that.
5 seconds casting time. That's what this ability needs. It will still be useful in keep situations and group fights, just won't be an i-win button in solo fights anymore.
5 seconds sounds steep to me. I'd say 2 or 3. 5 second casting time is an eternity, even in group situations. Considering the classes that can use it (archers, song classes) it's unlikely you'll see that cast time hastened much at all.
The reason i mentioned the spymaster trap is not that it is related to FZ in any way. It is only that i have experience with how long it takes to place the mine, and consider that delay to be well suited for an ability like FZ. Edited by: ShareeFromTristan at: 4/23/04 4:56 am
lol man u guys read alot into how i got zephyr off....simple fact, he wasn't stuck to me so i simply backed off a few steps and zephyr'd his azz lol. yes ayron should've jacked me up. yes i had to ip. yes i was going to die lol. zephyr was last ditch and it worked. But SH and LA (ala before the nerf) give me no reason to feel sorry for ya ayron. I've killed ya before w/o zephyr i'm sure i'll do it again, and i'm sure i'll die to u like normal more times too lol. Lucky fight for me. /salute ayron
almost forgot lol in fact ayron, that last time i smoked you, you were with a group of 4 mid stealth and 2 of the 4 (including you) died before i did. so don't go spewing about how u solo ALL the time, u solo alot yes, so do i...we also group when needed. Ryushihan
50ranger iseult
Silver HandEdited by: ryushihaniseult at: 4/24/04 12:59 pm
I am guessing that our ranger friend forgot this is not VN and none of this has been a flame or d00dish in this post.
I imagine everyone would agree that there are things in this game that tip the balance against each other all the time, and that is what this thread is about. Not that so and so killed whomever, but this is suppose to be a discussion of how things in this game work in general
Ryush welcome to the Safehouse. I'm not sure if you've ventured to these boards much. But, I think you've missed the entire point of this thread. This wasn't about me coming here and whinning that I got beat. I don't care about dying i've been playing my Shadowblade for 2 and a half years consistantly as my only toon. I'm more then used to dying. I care about game balance for all realms/classes as do most frequent visitors to these forums.
It really bothers me when people say oh well, this ability is fine even though it's overpowered; because you guys had overpowered LA for so long or you had this over powered ability for so long. Now it's my turn muahaha!!
Also, for the record I was never speced at all in LA until maybe a month before the LA nerf. I was always a critblade or a variation of it and still am (except for being a soulblade for 3 months after LA nerf).
This post was about how 1 sided FZ is and how it's overbalanced in the archers favor 1 on 1. I don't know why you had to come post trying to start a flame. This is a friendly forum where we try to work out the game mechanics and testing and come up with solid solutions. Not sure what you were getting at by talking about me being grouped with others etc..... also I am solo as much as possible. Just about the only people I ever group with is Ispi or Fonda. If there are other stealthers nearby when you TS I can gurantee you that i'm not grouped with them at all and have nothing to do with them unless it's one of the names I mentioned above. I will almost always leave the area when i know there are other shadowblades around. I hate being around other stealthers as it gets me killed as you so delicatly said yourself above.
I was stuck to you by the way if you look at the log again you'll notice i hit /stick before you casted. You ran/ghosted thru me and that was when I did /stick.
