This is what i am hoping...
I think this would balance the class out fairly well...
having a burst of damage like that of a rogue but less often and more unpredictable doing massive to small amounts of damage depending on how beserk they go...
Read up and tell me what you think...
The Berserker would be of the fighter/melee class. Barbarian Humans and Troll and outer stout classes of eq may be Berserkers.
Berserkers would fighters who are able to release powerful but unpredictable beastly battle lusts during combat.
Berserkers may use any light armor. Berserkers may be good, neutral, or evil. They may dual wield but are better off with a 2 handed weapon.
To achieve a berserk state, the berserker must spend one round (or amount of time during witch battle is going on) working himself into a frenzy, biting his shield, howling, kicking shouting ext. At the end of the round, the berserker must make a cannibalization like the shaman for mana only for endurance and the ability to cannibalize will only be able to be used after the berserker is psyched into a frenzy. After this cannibalization (witch will take health from the berzerker and turn it to increased endurance) is used the frenzy begins and depops automatically untill after say (5 minuets as the timer for the frenzy) he can be psyched into another by doing the above.
During this state of battle frenzy the berzerker will be able to do mass amounts of damage until his stamina runs out. Though the berzeker has more endurance than a normal melee class during the frenzy it will run out steadily last maybe 20-30 seconds after witch the berzerk will become a normal melee unit doing average dps.
They will do more damage in a short amount of time than our backstab but it will be alot longer for them to re use it. we have to only wiat what like 5 and 1/4 seconds
- thats just a sketchy picture of what i think would balance the class out nicely. It has room for improvement and is just a guess to what the live team may do to balance it but it seems like something they would come up with...
they will be melee, i think the idea came from the viking berserkers, viking berserkers used primarily axes (as has been stated they will use in the game i believe), wore light armor (leather for eq id guess) and relied on basically insanity and extremely quick blows to scare his enemy @#%$ and make them run, it was quite effective i might add, berserkers will be a melee dps class, i dont see it any other way
I hate the class passionately already myself. I see the intention as supplanting our already tenuous DPS role and frankly I am still suprised that more groups have not already figured out that a charm or pet class is far better in the role as it stands.
Whatever though, I should not let my present bitterness cloud my opinions too much. I suspect the Berzerker will be as expected, a true melee damage-dealer that cannot tank. Less tanking than a Ranger/Monk/Rogue (trivial already in many areas) and superior dps for that "trade-off". Celeris Tujimson
Maurading Deceiver of The Nameless
"Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime."
G. Gordon Liddy"
Well in EQ2 there are 2 subclasses to a Warrior. A defensive oriented "Guardian" subclass, and then an offensive oriented "Berserker" subclass. I quote www.eqii.com/libclasses.php :
Quote:Berserker Sub-class - Berserkers are chaotic warriors who inflict heavy damage with all manner of weapons. Their furious attacks overwhelm their opponents, to whom they show no mercy.
So its likely they will be the same in EQ1.
Some of the recent changes to warrior class could be explained this way too. They nerfed the damage output of the agressive disc, and at the same time gave a bit of innate mitigation. Aka, positioning the current warrior class more defensively than before.
My guess is that Berserkers will probably have max in all weapon skills, and have some long lasting offensive discs, and 1.2-1.3 times higher damage output than regular warriors. On the other hand they probably will not receive the innate mitigation that present warriors have, and possibly a watered down version of defensive instead of the real thing(but who knows).
If they indeed turn out to be a DPS oriented class, I expect they will have DPS somewhere around the monk level. Any lower than that and I dont see why anyone would play them, as they cannot cast spells and do not seem to have any particular "niche" associated with them, so that pretty much leaves DPS as a tuning parameter. Edited by: rani at: 1/3/04 6:30 am
Well, they could always turn them into the shapeshifting rat from DAoC, giving them multiple forms to shapeshift into or somesuch, but most likely it's just a FotM newb class to give bored people something else to play with that can do mad dps and still be a useless addition.
You know with Sony these days, just make them visually pleasing to look at and play and regardless of how useful they are, people will play it.
Quote:Some of the recent changes to warrior class could be explained this way too. They nerfed the damage output of the aggressive disc, and at the same time gave a bit of innate mitigation. Aka, positioning the current warrior class more defensively than before.
They didn't "nerf" the damage output of aggressive,they simply lowered the duration from 3 min to 1 min,and took away the negative part of the disc in that the warrior would take an increased amount of damage vs any mob that hit him while using the disc.
It made the disc pretty useless unless the war was pretty sure he was not going to be in any position to tank,and due to the amount of damage he put out if used on raids it often resulted in his death due to warriors having no way to lower their aggro save turning off attack,which defeats the whole purpose of discing.
Our Fellstrike,mightystrike and charge discs recieved extended Durations and shortened Refreshes and they now out-damage Aggressive nicely and are a little better for keeping the war out of harms way,and since unhooking disc timers from each other I have found that I now provide way More DPS on raids then I was ever able to before because I can actually use these discs now without fear of losing the option to /disc defensive.
I don't see this class in a tanking role.After the amount of arguing that has come about of the knight VS Warrior debate I don't see SoE throwing another class into the fray to further conflict with each other and create more balance related arguments.
This will be a class that is heavy on DPS and likely very heavy on the Combat Ability System if it is indeed as mentioned before and based on the Old Norse/Viking Berserker type characters.Imagine several Combat Abilities featuring potential Crippling attacks on mobs....
They will probably be the most DPS in the game. They want to sell the expansion, and they want people to start over. Releaseing a very powerful class would get people to do both.
eeeh , Korthuran, used primarily axes , erm yah read up on the real vikings :P they weren't clad in armor with shiny swords bud.
wore light armor .. yah .. clothes are light armor
and relied on basically insanity .. well that and eating something that is called a "berserkja sveppur" or berserker mushroom. it's white with a red "hat" which has white dots on it. somewhat poisonous. eating that should make you go nuts huh heh.
Still think there is absolutely no room in the game for this Bezerker class... it's difficult enough for melee classes to find groups with the existing competition.
If anything they should have made another cc/mez type caster.
"eeeh , Korthuran, used primarily axes , erm yah read up on the real vikings :P they weren't clad in armor with shiny swords bud."
yeah, i never in my post said they were clad in armor with shiny swords so i fail to understand your point...
its been some time since i did any reading on the vikings but im quite certain that they used axes, wielding two axes and charging at your oponent is quite effective especially when the oponent spends most of his energy just deflecting blows with a shield
as for the mushrooms /shrug i either had not heard that or hadnt remembered it
oh and the berserkers werent exactly run of the mill average vikings, i cant recall the name of the viking king that unified much of that area of scandanavia but he basically used the berserkers to destroy his enemys and when there was no enemy left to kill they turned on the berserkers and attempted to rid themselves of the berserkers fearing them as too dangerous and unstable
anyway, like i said i dont understand your point, it sounded to me like you were agreeing with me and disagreeing at hte same time? /boggle
Though I would have personally prefered another healing class on the order of effectiveness as a cleric. I get so dang tired of waiting on healers all the time.
Just use EQ DEV logic here, it's simple to see what they will be.
k, we have a new melle class, dont want to infringe on warriors, while not unbalancing rogues or monks they wont get spells, so hybrids are fine.
K, leave warriors as kings of melle....fine, berserkers wear leather armour according to lore, so warriors stay king. Now to give them somethin in return. Melle damage!
K, dont want to unbalance monks and rogues. Monks and Rogues have tons of skills, ways to evade damage, man, plus rogues even get to wear chain. Lets just make berserkers #1 melle damage class, without the extra skills monks and rogues get like safe fall...theres an extra 15dps for berserkers right there, that will make it all even. Oh wait, while we're at it, lets toss in some ranged so they aren't getting any nice defensive stuff, you cant really expect a melle class to survive with no evasion of any type.
Looks good? All set, Roll it out!
basically they will do same thing they always do when balancing melle classes. take something from class 1's column A, balance it with class 2's column B, and say it's balanced even though the two things have nothing to do with eachother. With an end result of warriors being #1 with the best and most useful set of class complimenting skills, while everyone else taks huge hits because of their additional skills, half of which are next to useless most of the time...but they get more, so it's fair.
Expect nothing less than the class to get released totally unbalanced, and not nerfed into oblivion until the following expansion, or to have other classes nerfed to match them.
In the void is virtue, and no evil.
Wisdom has existance, principle has existance,
the way has existance, spirit is nothingness.
If I were asked to describe the real life Viking Berzerkers in terms of EQs abilities I would come up with the following:-
Lightly armoured.
Uses 2HS and dual wields 1HS early in career.
Able to do huge amounts of DPS while stamina/endurance lasts. Basically due to high Strength, high dmg weapons and high attack speed.
Needs a period before battle to work up frenzy. Possibly need a catalyst, like mushrooms.
Does not dodge but enemy misses frequently due to fear reducing their dexterity. Maybe Parry more often due to the speed of the weapons whirling round him.
Enemy very likely to run after 50% damage.
Adds and unprovoked attacks less likely unless the enemy is significantly higher in level ie Yellow or Red to the Berserker.
Vunerable to ranged weapons but high attack speed means casters and Archers etc. will die quickly at melee range. Maybe resistant to spells such as Root, Malaise, Drowsy etc.
If caught unawares will be able work up a frenzy without risk of interruption but will be at much reduced ability while Frenzy is building.
Little thought is given to balance in the above analysis so it could match the real thing closely It is very difficult to balance *any* new class but I bet the company policy is "Err on the side of 'Uber' to get people to play it then we will tweak it downwards later".
hmmm how about theyr normal attack reduces endurance and that in turn reduces their melee effectiveness later on in long fights, they would have to disc early to get the max dps at the risk of dying (makes sense that the strongest attack is at the start of the fight right?) i see no reason to give this class a way to dump agro, it seems completely the opposite of the class name, to lose agro that is
I think you missed the point that I was describing 'real' berserkers in terms of EQ abilities.
My reasoning on the 'aggro' issue was that berserkers were just normal warriors with normal swords/axes and little armour (sometimes not even clothes) but they were effective because of the sheer speed and savagery of their attacks. It was an early form of 'Shock & Awe' tactics The effect on the enemy was to reduce their effectiveness through sheer fear and make them switch to defensive tactics or just throw down their weapons and run! A commonly used term that comes from sword fighting parlance is 'putting him on his back foot' ie forcing an opponent to spend all his time defending.
An EQ Berserker might work on a similar principal. A short lived but awesomely savage attack that does huge amounts of damage but when it runs out you are left with a weakly armoured average melee fighter. Probably a bit like a Wizard who can unleash huge amounts of damage but when his mana runs out he is quite vunerable.
My take on the EQ Berserker would be :-
The frenzy must be built up over a period of maybe 30 seconds, possibly a bar can be seen filling up, then the Berserker gets the ability to fight for 90 seconds (more?) with full non-failing Double Attack and maybe enhanced STR, DEX,AGI etc (one of which would lead to mobs missing more). During the frenzy there is a high statistical chance that mobs that would ordinarily join in would decide not to and mobs that are already engaged might decide to run (perhaps 'Induce Fear' is one of the berserkers abilities at a certain level).
Maybe instead of non-failing Double Attack he has normal chance of landing double attack but he always has a modifier that reduces normal weapon delay thus giving enhanced DPS?
When the frenzy wears off the Berserker needs to back off and work on getting his 'Frenzy Reservoir' up again, possibly a form of meditation, possibly using mushrooms. Once started the Frenzy cannot be stopped and remaining frenzy saved for later as that did not happen in real life. The Berserker would have to learn to back off before runnng out and find somewhere safer before becoming 'normal' again (Hey I am getting ideas for a 'werewolf' class )
Dual Wield and Double Attack would be attained fairly early on and a little later things like 'Induce Fear'.
Disadvantages of the class:
Low armour.
Vunerable to ranged weapons & spells even when in a frenzy.
Runs out of frenzy and becomes vunerable to melee attacks regularly.
Vunerable to being ambushed when not ready to start a frenzy (though he can choose to start frenzy before the 'frenzy reservoir' is full)
Can be overwhelmed if he jumps into too big a group. Can run out of frenzy while still under attack from nasty/numerous enemies.
No more HPs than a Rogue so even with Focused Will might need to find somewhere quiet to regenerate further.
No 'Hide' or 'Sneak' ability to help safe regen. Edited by: roblex at: 1/4/04 4:59 am
Someone might do more damage than me! I am gonna CRY!!
/sarcasm off
Quit crying and go back to playing. Madoc
65 Rogue of Radiant
See my crappy gear
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." --Samuel Adams
Sad thing is that as far as RL and RP counterparts, rogues were never kings of damage. They were the scouts, the thieves, to an extent the assasins. They were never the best fighters.
See, I don't understand why everyone assumes that Berzerkers are going to be overpowered just because they are the new class.
This is not the first new class added to the game, Beastlords weren't overpowered at all when they were first added, so I don't know why everyone thinks that Berzerkers are going to end up.
As far as how they are going to end up, I say use this rule of thumb...Berzerkers are probably going to end up being just like D&D Barbarian class, since every other class in EQ is lifted directly from some D&D class.
What I'd like to see for Barbarians, is a handful of "Warcry's" that actually work like bard songs do, its an entire system of casting that only one class in the game makes use of, it would be nice if some other class could use it. Especially if they used endurance.
actually, BL was. In most cases they have MORE DPS than a rogue. They can slow 5% less than a chanter and slow early to take the hits. They have nice buffs. Crack that stacks with other crack. I am trying to find a weakness in the BL. *shrug*
Quote:actually, BL was. In most cases they have MORE DPS than a rogue. They can slow 5% less than a chanter and slow early to take the hits. They have nice buffs. Crack that stacks with other crack. I am trying to find a weakness in the BL. *shrug*
I would pay to see a Beastlord beat me on DPS. Lol~ that was the funniest joke I've heard this year. Marauder GOGO - HOSS Druzzil Ro
well u got some kickass time weapons /rude inny, @#%$ dropped the bard weapon of all things last time we killed him, so no beast would beat you there but iv seen bsts put up some serious dps, had one parsed out at 200dps going full out offensive with VT gear, of course a beast doing that in a raid situation would get assbeat most likely
I'm not sure how the Berserkers will work in EQ, but the real word "berserker" comes from the swedish/norwegian/danish "Barsark" (both "a's" should have two dots over them, but since most doesn't have a swedish key board installed I choose to take them away hehe). The word comes from "Bar" wich is a old word for bear, and "Sark" wich is another word for robe, or a very similar piece fo clothing - Basically they were called "beerrobes" because they wore clothes made of, or partly made of, animal furs.
Now, it would be cool if the EQ-berserkers where shape-shifters... :P
/Z
Zohran Shadowbladez
Deceiver and grandmaster poisoner
Venril Sathir
I would pay to see a Beastlord beat me on DPS. Lol~ that was the funniest joke I've heard this year.
I didnt bother to click your link, but preelemental, our BST often do more DPS than our rogues. I am counting pet in there too, because if you are doing max dps then may as well add everything that That class is doing. Like I would add a Mages pet to his nuking.
Quote:Basically they were called "beerrobes" because they wore clothes made of, or partly made of, animal furs.
If they were really called BEERrobes, wouldn't that mean their clothes were made of beer? Im sure Homer would like one of those, Zohran :P jk Ranja
Deceiver of Tide on Venril Sathir
Even elemental equipped BSTs can out do elemental equipped rogues. Ifir or time daggers are required to put rogues back on top. As has been stated a billion times, that jump is much too large, and you uber rogues seem to have forgotten where you were pre-elemental. Quentis Locksmythe - Redeemed and Raging Assassin
Even elemental equipped BSTs can out do elemental equipped rogues. Ifir or time daggers are required to put rogues back on top. As has been stated a billion times, that jump is much too large, and you uber rogues seem to have forgotten where you were pre-elemental.
pass me the joint that you got, cuz you must be hella high
funny i dont recall beastlords in the game that long. C. SchezarEdited by: Chrys Schezar at: 1/7/04 8:04 am
Quote:I would pay to see a Beastlord beat me on DPS. Lol~ that was the funniest joke I've heard this year.
I didnt bother to click your link, but preelemental, our BST often do more DPS than our rogues. I am counting pet in there too, because if you are doing max dps then may as well add everything that That class is doing. Like I would add a Mages pet to his nuking.
Well no shet you are counting pets in, let me tell you, I count Backstabs in when I parse Rogues too! /shocked!!!
With comparable aa and gear, Beastlords will not out-paraphrase Rogues in a raid... maybe the bloodfrenzies proc'd a little too much and your guild's rogues couldn't BS?
edit: changed the wording a bit for links. Marauder GOGO - HOSS Druzzil RoEdited by: Assling Hero at: 1/7/04 9:19 am
Quote:With comparable aa and gear, Beastlords will not outparse Rogues in a raid... maybe the rogues you parsed didn't realize they need to be on the mobs BACK to BACKSTAB
not only comparable gear, but level too, melodie must pulling #'s from nowhere C. Schezar
I have never been in a group that said "Damn, we need a BST"... Most people who play BSTs know about as much about how they should be played as SOE knows really what spot they should fill, and most BSTs are left to solo, which they can still manage fairly well... Most BSTs I have grouped with have no clue how to manage aggro and even fewer seem able to control their warders properly... Rogues get groups because they are massive dps with no upkeep, you don't need to worry about healing them all the time or breaking mezzes with arrows or aggroing half a room with a goober pet... I'm getting kind of sick of people who complain about rogue dps using absolutes and hypothetically ideal situations when playing a dps class involves a lot more than just getting in position and attacking and hitting a skill button... Parses I've done show I've outdamaged any BST I've grouped with up till now, but that doesn't really matter to me anyway since the numbers don't show whether I was doing my job or the BST was a dumbass or not...
Quote:I Don't know about your server, but there is way more than the optimum ratio of 4 (others) to 1 healer on my server.
Glad someone said it... If you really want to know why rogues don't get groups, it's because 1/2 the population of high-stress-main end-game raiding players have 1-4 twinked low-stress (namely melee) twinks that they'd rather play every night instead of getting their chanter or cleric more AA to advance their mains and help their f-ing guild...
Quote:frankly I am still suprised that more groups have not already figured out that a charm or pet class is far better in the role as it stands.
My opinion on BSTs stated above pretty well covers my feeling for most mages I've grouped with as well... As far as charming things, you do know that Command of Druzzil and Command of Tunare have been nerfed for more than 6 months now huh? Sure, you can still charm maybe 1 or 2 mobs in a hard LDoN, but you aren't looking at keeping it up for 30+ min with limitted risk any more - things can go downhill fast when a pet that doubles for 900 breaks in the middle of multipulls every 5-10 min and has hate piled onto the druid or chanter...
And why are we bitching about this Berserker class before it even goes live? Who really knows WTF they will do? Why do we have to enjoy bitching so much that if there aren't any major facts yet we have to go out of our way to make up assumptions to argue over? If you want something real to bitch about, let's all move back over the the new AA thread - now there's a right tangible steaming pile to discuss... Edited by: Cazic Thulle at: 1/7/04 10:53 am
I think berserkers will be heavily group oriented. They will probably be dependent on the new opening system to provide warcrys and other things that are actually group 'buffs' in this new system.
That's my call since SOE leans very very very heavily towards forcing people to group.
Then again, Berserkers will probably do huge burst exp too, heh.
I would think the Berserkers are more utility and burst damage than steady damage. Then again, If they had just added the necessary utility to Rogues like players wanted rather than adding a new class . . . We wouldn't have anything to argue over and would quickly become bored, LoL.
The new class is to help sell the new expansion. $$
But the above poster is right. The only people that know what Beserkers do is SOE and Beta-testers at this point. But speculation is fun
Hopefully they will compliment the rogue rather than be a choice above rogue for groups.
Quoteut preelemental, our BST often do more DPS than our rogues
Your Rogues in your guild suck. There is no way the bst is out dmging the Rogue, Unless the rogues are bots or they simply dont care to backstab. This includes there little pets that really arn't that great.
Not really - It's just a "smart" comment really (I liked it tho hehe, but far from "touche")
I very regularly play with a beastlord friend (read close to always) and we have similar gears and offensive AA's (maxed out) - we are also in the same guild, and we have similar pre-elemental equipment (fighting real RZ atm - he WILL die next time ).
He is the best beastlord I have seen (hehe hope he don't read this, or he will get cocky lol), especially DPS-wise - maxing out DoT's, nukes, timing them, have best pre-ele weapons (so do I probably). He have never consistently outdamaged me over time. He will occationally outdamage me on some mobs on raids, but never in a group.
He haven't done that before either, not back when I had epic, and he had WLK etc (we have levelled both levels,AA's and upgraded gears together). He did come very close at some stages of the development tho, and would probably have outdamaged me if I would have been slacking.
Thing is, he is the only beastlord in guild that even come close. The rest of them are good players - but they don't stand a chance.
/Z
Zohran Shadowbladez
Deceiver and grandmaster poisoner
Venril Sathir
ut preelemental, our BST often do more DPS than our rogues
