It has been 4 months since the LDoN release.
There were a lot of comments made about making "elemental" equivalent armor and weapons available to average Joe's who could not afford the time luxury of a raiding guild (mostly disparaging, some of them supportive).
I do not remember all the exact mathematical theories, about how long it would take an average player to secure a decent BP or Poker but how close are you??
Assuming you are NOT in an elemental capable guild how many points in Everfrost have you got in 4 months? I consider myself an average player - and I have not yet got 1400 points total, let alone in any one dungeon. At the rate I am going it will be close to 12 months of average playing to achieve my goal of a BP and Poker.
I play 2 or 3 hours a night (lvl 65, guilded, epic) in a wide variety of areas and have 23 wins in MM and 15 across the other four dungeons. Am I average or sadly lacking in my devotion to EQ investment?
Well, it kinda depends on what u do in those 2-3 hours. If those 2-3 hours are devoted mainly to grouping/xping, then i think u are kinda lacking...
Your average LDoN group only really takes about an hour. In addition, as long as u do normal and everyone is 65, u should rarely lose. I've only failed on hard missions or when server went down. (note: 90% of my LDoN wins were pickup groups and not guild groups)
Also, this is kinda a Golden Age for the rogue. (getting groups at least) During peak times, you should not have any real trouble getting an LDoN group. Even during off hours, u should be able to find a group at least within the hour since u are 65.
If u play for 3 hours a night, getting 51 points a night is not too unreasonable i think... Peorth
65 Deceiver
Fury's Edge
Well, I quit EQ at the middle or end of October and I had unlocked 1492 in Takish and EverFrost and had close to 1000 in MMC. So I had the 1492 sleeves with no augments and the dagger and the +2 augment. I think I had about 1k or close points banked, wasn't sure what I would get next.
I was only playing in LDoN and did one or two adventures a night. Often didn't play on the weekends. So I'd say I probably was doing 10 adventures a week. So lets say 500 points a week. That is about 3 weeks per unaugmented item for someone that plays at my rate. Panamah's Pet Peeve: It's incoming, not incomming!
Quote:Your average LDoN group only really takes about an hour. In addition, as long as u do normal and everyone is 65, u should rarely lose. I've only failed on hard missions or when server went down. (note: 90% of my LDoN wins were pickup groups and not guild groups)
This statement is true for me about 40% of the time for me. I finish a mission, from log in to split, in about 3.5 hours, usually.
I'm a casual player. I get time for one, maybe 2 missions a day, and I can't play every day. On average, perhaps 4-6 missions a week is what I get. I only get 20-30 points per mission, however, due to my level.
I've got about 400pts in Mistmoore, and 700ish in Tak, with under 150 in the others. Understand, I mostly play for fun. I have gotten a few upgrades from it, and my toon is a bit healthier for it, despite my super out of date Magelo.
Quote:This statement is true for me about 40% of the time for me. I finish a mission, from log in to split, in about 3.5 hours, usually.
Remember that the difficulty of a mission scales with the people in it however.
If you've got a tank, puller, healer + 1 other, go for it. You don't need 6 people to go do LDoN and the event will go just as fast usually.
I usually do LDoN with only 3 or 4 people in the group. It's much more relaxed that way.
-Zehn
The Perfect Flaw - home of The Perfect Perspective and Perfect Comic, now with forums!
-"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)"
I've made about 1400 points so far spread out in all of the zones. I average out about 2 or 3 groups a week in Ldon most weeks if that, but hopefully that should go up to about 5 or 6 now that I have my major questing done that I wanted. (Shawl 8 and Halfling Mask)
My biggest problem is that I get bored power exping so I tend to do other things in between alot. Like my current fun in getting my bard and mage non-kos in Chardok. *Lyrin Jytus - Maestro *Officer of Subterfuge - Prexus
Rogue, lvl 65, now MDoD and Primal, in a small family guild. 95 and 22, around 400 on the server, have MDoD and enough points for one armor piece, which I have not decided on yet.
Ranger, now level 65, 91 and 8, have two pieces of armor, will soon have the third, not augmented yet. IN the same small guild.
Things I have noticed: If the server crashes, you lose. That sucks. 3 losses on the rogue, 2 on the ranger, due to Verants server problems. 5 more losses on the rogue before we figured out how buggy the dang collects were.
If you are with well equipped, good players, you can finish most adventures in 30 minutes to 40 minutes worst case. If you are in a group of average players, well balanced group, all 65, you can easily finish in under an hour. If you take a pickup group with a couple of lvl 60s, or with people who do not know how to play their class, you do well to finish in 90 minutes. If you group with a poor mix of characters, but you all know what you are doing, you can still win, and it is a good place to get those 59 to 62 people in your guild who know how to play some nice experience.
I play most nights, 2 to 3 hours, and usually 12 or more on the weekend. I am in one of the oldest, and smallest guilds on the server, but I have lots of friends in the big guilds, so groups are not usually a problem. If I had concentrated on one character, I would have MDoD and as many as 5 pieces of armor in 4 months. That is pretty nice IMHO. Of course, I would be 4 more months from getting all the augments bought.
Skyknife Stormcaller 65 Rogue www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=582990/
I banged out a bunch of adventures initially and pretty much stopped after a while. Netted myself the BP+augments and the Takish mask with another Veng 3 augment over that time. Also filled out all my old gear with stamina/hp/resist bits and bought four procs over that time period, leaving me with ~1k points unspent at present.
Nothing crazy really and I'm sure I would have done many more if I were a tank or even a caster. As it is though, the additional HP/minor vengance over what I am presently wearing just isn't enough of a draw to keep me there too much. I'm sure I'll do a few more at some point or another but I can't see myself maxing out the charm anytime. Celeris Tujimson
Maurading Deceiver of The Nameless
"Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime."
G. Gordon Liddy"
I will soon have about 100 missions completed, about 20 of those hard, no fails yet. It's not that much, I know - but I spend much more time online raiding, than I do anything else - if I wasn't raiding I could probably farm 3-400 points a night doing hards easily.
I am not in a EP guild yet, halfway through RZ script atm.
/Z
Zohran Shadowbladez
Deceiver and grandmaster poisoner
Venril Sathir
I am not a big fan of LDoN. Im bored stiff with doing the same old dungeons night after night after night after night.
When LDoN first came out, I went slow. Saw how most of the dungeons in each theme looked pretty much the same, with maybe one or two unique rooms per dungeon, if you got that far in. Mobs were all pretty much the same in each theme as well. So I sat back trying to get elemental groups. But they quickly became rare.
So after sitting around most of a couple of months, I decided to get some points. I have now done 202 adventures. Im 196-6 on them, 26-3 on hards. 1 loss on a raid. 1 loss when the cleric went LD and didnt come back, and 1 loss due to an LDoN bug SoE wont fix nor even acknowledge. I've earned over 11,000 points.
I bought some Veng augments to max out worn ATK, and have the adventures stone up to 42 HP/Mana +4 to all stats and saves. Im plowing though as many as I can get done, mainly to get the adventurers stone stats up at this point. I will probably use the points that are accumulating to buy HP augments for items I win in PoTime since we are working our way through that at this point. I cant see wasting the points on gear now knowing that Im just going to be replacing everything soon.
But to me LDoN is boring and frustrating. The return on the time invested is horrid. Im almost doing it out of habit right now more than desire to do it. Hard adventures offer a challenge, but getting a group together that can win a hard adventure is tough most of the time. And I can get wins and points faster by mowing down mobs in easy adventures anyways. The drops in easy adventures are junk to me. The drops in hard adventures are also junk considering the gear and AA's you need to have to be able to win one. I have no desire to do anymore LDoN raids. The rewards in them are a total freaking joke. Especially when you consider the amount of time it takes to get to the loot.
If the next expansion is anything like LDoN is, my days playing EQ probably wont last much longer.
Siins Halfling Deceiver
Bigmeeno Barbarian Prophet
The Shadow Order
I avg about 2 ldon per day, seems reasonable and I already got Mdod now slowly working on 2 dmg aug but not at snail pace. Need 23 wins tak 2 wins per day. less then 2 weeks to make it 16/19. Btw to make that happen I only look for Takish groups, if you spread out you are just wasting time.
Points:
-------------
100'ish in Guk
700 or so in Mir
400+ in Mmc
450 maybe in Tak
250 prolly in Ruj
I play just about every day, I probably do a couple missions a week. Rarely more than 1 in a day unless it's on a weekend. I did take almost a month off of LDoN just before collects in Mir got fixed.
I only have 4 failures, all of which are in Miragul's and most of which were guild groups. Pickup groups are usually pretty good as long as you have all 65's who stick with it and are somewhat reasonable in teammate selection.
DPS really is king in LDoN. Several groups i've been in their idea of DPS was me+tank+shammy pet. Those were some damn close adventures. Your Sister in Arms,
ca.
1450 in Guk
2400 in MM
1700 in Tak
1600 in Ruj
2100 in EF
the vast majority of groups (with the exception of Guild groups) i built myself, waiting LFG takes just too long lol, Dual Wielding a fully augged Guk Blade and MDoD now.
just recently we started doing hard adventures with a solid guild group, wich speeds up getting points a lot too (we re a non Elemental/casual guild , but got some LDoN stuff now wich helps a lot)
oh and Srath. When i was looking for a specific camp to do, making my own group worked wonders~ (i.e. /tell 5 people on lfg list: " hey wanna do a GuK adventure"? )
I find that since I only have 2 hours typically on any given night that I get invited to groups that look for more people for way too long and then I either have to leave the group or go to bed late. So far I've done about 30 LDoN's and I don't even try anymore.
The only ones I do are on the weekend. Weeknights I spend in BoT often. Marauder Koer Poisondirk and Koerin Scales
Tradeskills total: 1272
192 Baking
129 Blacksmithing
248 Brewing + GM Trophy
200 Fishing
200 Fletching
200 Jewel Craft
250 Poison Making + GM Trophy
195 Pottery
108 Tailoring
Friends of Light
A New Dawn Alliance
Xegony
Koer
Vah Shir Beastlord of Shar Vahl
Legacy of Sha
Firiona Vie
I am in about the same boat as the original poster. The problem on my server is it is very hard to get groups in any camp but MM or possibly Tak. I did a few adv. in Ruj also. Even in MM I am stuck waiting about 2-3 hours for a group unless it is late at night. I have only done 3 adv. in EF and 4 in Tak with the rest in MM. This has equated to about 1000 total points. However, most of my time has been spent in PoP trying to get 65 which I just recently achieved so will have more time to do adventures. Hopefully, this will make it easier to get adventures since most groups of 65's will only take 65's at least on Cazic Thule. Jaxe
Redeemed Assassin
I walk in the darkness that I may serve the light.
I'm not a casual player, I play probably 6 hours on the weeknights and 20 hours on the weekends.
The key for me has been making my own groups, and not being picky about where to get points. Sure, you have to build points but build them everywhere. You'll want to buy stuff there eventually anyhow.
Some things to remember about the dungeons (at least in normal); EC can easily be done w/o a CC, slower helps (BL is a great addition to any group). SRO can be done like EC but with the addition of a Necro becomes cake, just kill the live mobs first. NRO sucks (druids, sow and ds), but clerics are great for spliting the rooms up with paci, most things have low hps so if you don't have CC 2 and even 3 at a time isn't bad. EF, avoid it if you have to it's the most annoying dungeon(not practical I know)
ATM I sit in the top 100 on Xev (ranked 53rd atm) and exclusively do pickup groups. Have far more losses than some of the pevious posters, but almost all of them were in the first week of LDoN when most everyone was adjusting to doing dungeon crawls again.
Completed to date: MDoD (+2 aug, 75pnt lifetap, +10sta), Incorporeal Boots (V4, 40hp, something else which I forgot), Club of the Mad Researcher (no augs atm), misc augs including see invis from EC.
LDoN is great imo, it's no less fun than doing exp at a static spawn somewhere else. I've found if you're friendly in group and it all happens to mesh people are willing to go again, if not a third time.
The gear from LDoN is really top notch for as 'easy' as it is to get. A casual player would usually not see gear of this caliber anyhow, so if it takes them 3 months to make even 1 piece completely is that really bad?
Prodems|Xev|Peritus
65 Rogue
I'm unguilded atm (guild I was just in folded) and do about 2-3 LDoN a night - usually play about 3 hours a night. They key is not sitting around LFG - form your own. It takes no time at all to get a good group together and any group of 65s who know what they are doing can win in 40 minutes tops. Also don't be picky on themes unless you REALLY want points somewhere. I need Guk bad (only 12 wins there to 40 everywhere else) but I take what I can get. Points are points in my book.
I'm around 175-9 (~ish not positve) and ranked around 85th on Mith Marr. One of those losses was hard, 4 or so to server drops/etc... It really is tough to lose on normal. So far I have the BP, Arms, a belt from MMC, and a type 7 veng 4 augment on my shoulders. I'm hoping to get some guk points and build some nice bracers.
While I don't like the repetitiveness of LDoN themes, they do beat a normal xp group anyday of the week. Right now it is keeping me entertained until a new guild comes along and the new expansion is released.
The hard loot is really nice for anyone VTish level .
Huntress Lauralei
65 Forest Stalker
Laura's stuff
I make my own LDON groups every time. I get up at 6 AM to work out and play an adventure in the morning.
Since it has come out, I have bought:
Strike of Ykesha (510 Points)
Anger II (760 Points)
Malevolent Greaves of Suffering (760 Points)
Gleaming Shard of Courage (1150 Points)
Currently I have 1299 Points banked.
So since LDON came out I have gotten an amazingly good agro upgrade, another 110 Hps in my leg slot, and I am about to upgrade my helmet for another 15 AC and 40 hps.
Not overpowering in the least. Shame on all you whiners that complained. Here's a big fat I TOLD YOU SO right from the lizard's mouth...
Jakle
Iksar Overlord
Drinal Server
edit - forgot the 8 hps and 8 mana on charm WOO WOO! Edited by: kaladornus at: 1/5/04 12:59 pm
With usually 4-6 hours to play at night, and a few more on me days off, I've accrued I believe at last look was 118 wins, 8 losses (4 from fekking server resets omg die~) 1900+ pts in EF, 1200 pts in Nro, everywhere else is under 1k, but I went straight for the MDoD +aug +125dd poison proc, happy with it, and working towards incorporeal chain tunic. =D
Sidenote: Veng aug's cost too much. <ponders where the whiny emoticon is>
Quote:
While I don't like the repetitiveness of LDoN themes, they do beat a normal xp group anyday of the week. Right now it is keeping me entertained until a new guild comes along and the new expansion is released.
heh exactly..... i always thought it funny that people complained about the repetitiveness of LDoN Themes.
well of course it s true, and there s huge room for improvement in the dungeon design.... BUT!, what did we do before LDoN to exp? , right, sit in the SAME spot for anywhere as low as 30 mins up to several hours and kill the very same mobs over and over and over and over! heh.
LDoN at least added "group movement" if nothing else
Group movement is even more tedious and irritating than just sitting in one spot once you do it enough times.
At least when you sat in one spot you could surf the web or whatnot while exping. Now you have to pay attention sometimes and while that's a nice thought and might've once been considered a fun factor, it just isn't fun when you're doing it for the 100th time.
The bottomline is fairly simple: the true problem with exp being boring in EQ isn't because of overcrowded dungeons or camping, but rather rises from the repetition springing from the lack of content. In this respect I'm afraid true instancing only encourages developers to come up with less content while pretending that it's more and that people supporting instancing are really shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to future expansions.
Oh well, whatever floats your boat. Do remember who to blame, though, if in the future SoE releases more five-dungeon expansions disguised as forty and charges full price for'em.
My 65 enchanter's guild is pre-elemental. We've been doing NToV all year (on a rotation, so once every month or two); just last week was the first time we killed all 14 dragons in NToV.
Gotten about 3600 points so far, after about 90 adventures. Hardly ever visit PoP for xp anymore, prefer LDoN.
First 2000 adventure points were all spent on spells, just last week purchased my first item (an expensive augment which I put on my pauldrons).
I never understood what the big deal was with LDoN armor being good... it may be *possible* to get good armor in LDoN, but it's also *possible* to buy equally good armor in the bazaar. It's just so expensive I don't even consider it on my wish list. It takes even longer to save LDoN points than to save plat. But LDoN is still needed because of the nodrop loot -- all those +6 augments for instance, and the new spells.
i find it interesting about the perception that the LDoN concept is boring to some
<<quote: the true problem with exp being boring in EQ isn't because of overcrowded dungeons or camping, but rather rises from the repetition springing from the lack of content>>
I think part of the reason that I (and i think many others who replied) do NOT have masses of armor and upgrades from LDoN is that we do not go for the repetition. I find LDoN adds to the overall EQ experience where in a typical week I can grind in BoT for the chance at some ornate drops, I can build some AA's towards the next character enhancement, i can do a few dungeons, visit Nurga and Droga for some vengence quests, solo in Seb for some poison stuff and help some guildies on their epic paths. If I stayed in any one of these zones for more than 1 or 2 nights a week that would be boring but not through any fault of SOE.
The downside (reality??) of this is that my Incorporeal Chain BP will be 6 months away.
I think that I am asking for more points for completed adventures - and it would seem from many of your posts that even doubling the number of points per win is hardly going to destroy the balance of any content anywhere?
It does seem a little depressing that ONE piece of armor would take an average player, who was not interested in grinding for a few months in one zone, close to 12 months to obtain. Catweazel Shadowfoot
LVL 62 Rogue
Quote:My 65 enchanter's guild is pre-elemental. We've been doing NToV all year (on a rotation, so once every month or two); just last week was the first time we killed all 14 dragons in NToV.
This sounds very familar, very
Compared to ornate and Ntov drops, the Ldon armors are nice to fill in spots your slacking in, the BP is the best im going to see and was worth every point spent. Being in a guild and alliance, that have skipped over VT and have no plans to go back, Ldon is the only way I built up my Veng gear. I went from having only 1 AoB item, to having Veng 20 since Ldon came out. Its been a godsend to not have to worry about raising my atk anymore. Eloco Ra'Pido
Assassin
Cazic-Thule
Praxium
A few things I collected
Quote:I find LDoN adds to the overall EQ experience where in a typical week I can grind in BoT for the chance at some ornate drops, I can build some AA's towards the next character enhancement, i can do a few dungeons, visit Nurga and Droga for some vengence quests, solo in Seb for some poison stuff and help some guildies on their epic paths. If I stayed in any one of these zones for more than 1 or 2 nights a week that would be boring but not through any fault of SOE.
That's completely irrelevant of whether the zone is instanced LDoN-style or not. The problem you state is the fact that BoT seems to be the ONLY worthwhile zone in all of PoP pre-Ep for level 65's to group in. *THAT* is the problem and its solution does not have to involve instanced zones.
LDON really solves two problems in EQ: crowding and camping. The trade-off for this solution is exploration (which is bland and boring and wholly counter-productive in LDON) and unique encounters, which LDoN severely lacks. But even that trade-off is understandable and acceptable for me had not SOE added one more rather unnecessary, though for them very beneficial, "feature" in disguising what is essentially five zones as forty.
This trend will continue in GoD where they're releasing basically ten true zones and ten instanced zones, which essentially means they're releasing about ~12 zones for the same price as for what used to be 20 REAL zones expansions.
I did not say that BoT is the only worthwhile zone in PoP. I spend a lot of time in many of the PoP zones, doing trials in PoJ, doing a circuit in POI for tinkering and quest items, POV for tradeskill items, whenever possible I try and get involved in any flagging events. I have never visited the hobgoblin caves in PON or the flying thingies in POS Treetown. I visited Torment for the first time ever a few weeks ago and have never made it past the ZI for CoD.
I do however not expect to find a single worthwhile drop (for a lvl 65 rogue) in any PoP zone that I can currently visit / compete in except BoT.
I also think LDoN solves more problems than you imply. The use of AP's provides an alternate, non tradeable money source. The existing economy continues while the new one provides rewards that scale directly with the effort. SOE have also stated that LDoN instancing was an experiment and conceptually, instancing offers vast exploration capability. The blandness of the exploration IMO is a result of fansites publishing maps and quest solutions in a frenzy often times as soon as the beta NDA is lifted. The greatest writers of our time can also be put into the bland and boring category if you read the 2 minute synopsis of their work.
LDoN only solves crowding and camping in LDoN. I still cannot get near Lodi for example and BoT is very crowded, BUT, EQ is not overcrowded or overcamped - the content is almost staggering in its variety and LDoN has added to the volume.
If your point was that the cost for the LDoN or GoD expansion in isolation is poor value based on the incremental addition to the existing content then perhaps that is a different thread or discussion? Catweazel Shadowfoot
LVL 65 Rogue
2 hard mode lvl 65 wins a night = let's be conservative yet optomistic and say 3 hours = 210 points
1492 in a week there, and casual play time as well... Getting a winning group I think plays a much bigger role in getting good stuff from LDoN than any time commitment...
I've played as much as I possibly have time for the past 4 months and last night I finally got the NRo 2 dam aug to put on the EF dagger. I've finished about 80 adventures in that time. I also picked up 3 pieces of the BB chain thats about equal to the ToV stuff I have in other spots. I figure it will take me another month to get the EF BP.
I still use the epic in off hand and don't expect to replace it any time soon.
I don't really like LDoN, Exp kinda sucks at my level (63) compared to like Outer or Inner or BoT. I do it mainly for the points, got like, 500 in Takish, under 100-200 in the others. Guild was mainly doing Takish now moving on to BB. Everfrost is deserted most of the time, I figure why bother. Moral of the story: PoP > LDoN.
