"Me i'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest, honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly stupid" -- Capt Jack Sparrow
With the current system, your points can be used at any camp, as long as you have the minimum points required for that item earned at that camp. This set up works as long as you can always find a group at that camp.
On Prexus, 98% of the adventures are in Butcherblock. Now while there are decent items in Butcherblock, there are some better Rogue items in other areas. I should have access to these areas, without spending 10 min trying to convince my group we need to go to that area. Or worse yet, refusing groups that wont go there, thereby ruining my chance for experience.
Currently, I have 27 in BB complete, and only 2 for N Ro. It is going to take months to even possibly get the points required, from whichever area I need to get the new toy that I am wanting to get.
They need to change this so that your points can be used in any camp, regardless of where you got the points. This would eliminate people having "ECommons only" in their LFG listing.
I have the same problem on Cazic though I don't see it changing. I would imagine the reason Sony made the decision to make it this way was so you would not have people spending all their time at one camp and thereby have under utilized ldon dungeons much as we have under utilized "regular" dungeons. I can't say I would be upset if they changed it once GoD came out though. Jaxe
I walk in the darkness that I may serve the light.
I have never understood whats going on over on the other servers. On the Lanys server, MM is also the most popular theme, but its not hard to get groups at other camps. Guk is the least used, but even Guk isnt that hard if you ask necros. They can slow and mez most things in Guk and seem to be quite willing to do Guk in many cases.
I have MM, Ruj and Tak camps at 40+ wins, Miraguls at 36, and Guk at 35. My adventurer's stone now has 42 HP/Mana and +4 to all stats and saves.
The secret is earning the 1492 points in each camp. Once you have done that, it doesnt matter where you do your adventures, since you can then buy anything at any camp with your points, no matter where you earned them. 30 wins in a camp, all easy's, is enough to open up everything each vendor has.
Siins Halfling Deceiver
Bigmeeno Barbarian Prophet
The Shadow Order
BB is always the most popular theme, TM it's 1: BB, 2: Nro/EC tie, 3: EF, 4: Guk.
Guk... has like, maybe, on average out of all the players on line, 5 people in Sro looking for a Guk adv, the only way to even get a pickup group is to beg and plead for it when you get a group elsewhere. And Guk is empty usually only because everyone whines about the terrain inside, which i think makes for a fun change for around 10-20 mins maybe.
Fortunately I had the luck to fall into a few regular groups of new friends, so we tend to farm adv themes daily, if it's not one group, it's generally the other, and we do them in 25-30 mins a time, giving us a few minutes rest while the "party is resting" or we'd get more advs done in a day. =P
But, it's not the loot, it's the fact that all the lazy people don't wanna work, since themes like Nro almost always require CC/pac with rooms that tend to fill up with 9-10 mobs, Miraguls is fairly easy, most people just don't go there since there's few people in zone to make groups with, BB is easy to get to, and the dungeons are easy to do unfortunately, much easier than most others, with the exception of EC.
EC.. well not sure why that's so unpopular, it's got the lower end chain and of course plenty of good stuff with the poison procs, but rujark is so damn easy... even without CC never get more than 2 per pull if ya know how todo it right, it's simplistic, only real requirement is snare/root.
Even so, I think the themes were just not as well thought out in relation to balance simply due to some folks just find other areas too damn hard, or they dun wanna bother doing em.
While universal adv points would be nice, it'd be too easy then tbh. Edited by: Quakereject at: 1/5/04 11:52 am
I think it works out fine the way it is. You earn the faction at a camp, you can buy the stuff from that camp. If you do nothing for them, they wont sell anything to you. I prefer this way of being able to tell how much faction i have with a certain group than to be guessing how much i'm getting for helping.
I haven't had trouble getting groups in certain themes. The big problem I've run into is the lack of clerics, and the absolute refusal of people to even attempt adventures without one. Hodur Wisepaw - Oracle
except that if you want to max out your stone you need to do adventures in each theme
At first my goal was 1492 points in each dungeon, I figured after that I could just go anywhere for points and not care. But fact is once you have the 30 wins in each dungeon to unlock stuff your nearly half way to maxing stone - so that becomes the next goal. *sigh*
On Terris-Thule Butcherblock is also the most popular camp, especially among lower levels. But Nro, EC, and Everfrost all usually have people forming up and heading in for the level 65 crowd. Guk theme is the hardest to get a pickup group for - I can usually only head in there with a guild group.
Dove the Silent. Assassin of Clan Ta'Veren
I really don't see it as that much of a hinderance in the long term. Initially BBM was the most popular but frankly (at least on TN) folks have spread out pretty well. If a pickup group is only interested in BBM then I already have a fair indication of the nature of the group anyhow.
My own ranking is Miragul's (50), Takish (~40) and then 20 some in the others. Guk is still a bit painful to drag folks out for but I think Takish is likely the most asked for, largely due to the plate and perhaps RGC for some clerics. You will find differant mixes of people at each camp though most certainly. As time goes on though I do see the healers wanting to open up Guk and other places. I frankly never did see the particular attraction of MMC though, Rujark is the easiest in my opinion if that is what you are looking for. Celeris Tujimson
Maurading Deceiver of The Nameless
"Obviously crime pays, or there'd be no crime."
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That's really weird. On SH, I have > 350 adventures and they're pretty even across the board. I think some people tend to gravitate toward MM because it's a great camp with so many undead there. In the end though, I see people in all the camps.
Really we're only talking about a max of 1492 points in each camp to be able to shop globally. So about 30 adventures in each camp, or 150 in all. That's pretty easy to do over four months. It forces you to work on your charm and keeps the camps from being too congested. At least that's how it is on SH. Kinvaras
I'm on Rodcet Nife and I have twice as many adventures in Miragul's than any other theme, and the theme that I have the lowest amount of points is . . . <drum roll> Mistmoore!
I hate to say it, but your plea is falling on deaf ears here. Your argument is similar to somebody complaining about an NO DROP item they want that drops in Kaesora, but they can't get a group there, so they want the Devs to simply let the item drop off mobs in the Dreadlands. Riiiiggghhht.
The Devs went and made it possible for casual players to get damm good gear doing purely trivial content. Nothing needs to change to make it even EASIER to get the equipment.
They really should do something. I always put LFG ANY CAMP in my LFG message, and after 50 adventures or so I've done about 44 BB, 2 Nro, 2 Miragul's, and 2 Guk adventures. Nobody is doing anything but BBM, Nro seems the second most common, but still hardly anybody. After that, you'll almost never get a group at the other camps, they might as well not even exist unless you bring your own group of friends to do 30 adventures there.
BBM and Everfrost are the two easiest camps in my opinion. Dunno why everybody does BBM, but I'm so sick of it now I hate LDoN. There isn't crap for me at BBM and that's the only place I can get a pickup group.
Universal points would be fine with me personally. LDoN has just been a waste of my time and money if the only camp I can max out is BBM. And now that I'm done with BBM there's no reason to even do LDoN anymore unless I can get groups somewhere else, which I can't.
I couldn't agree more, it's utterly stupid and I hate it. When LDoN first came out, I hated it but then they tweaked hard adventures so they were a little more balanced so I don't find it so mind numbing god awful as I did early on, but now I've ran into the 'unlocking of items per vendor camp' thing and it's driving me absolutely insane. Worst idea imaginable. I don't get it's point.
Fennin Ro still has its Mistmoore fans. 90% of the adventures when LDoN started out was for Butcherblock. After folks got their 1492 points worth, the migrated over to Everfrost. From there, the flow seemed to drift towards North Ro. Now that folks are starting to reach 1492 there as well, I have a feeling it will migrate to East Commonlands next, then probably Guk last.
Yes I find it annoying trying to land a pickup group for a dungeon when most folks seem to do the "easy" ones like BB just because clerics, pallies and necros seem to be able to do well with their undead/anti-undead spells. But if you look at the loot tables, even they will have to move eventually. A lot of the good caster gear is at North Ro, not Butcherblock, in my opinion. I think that was the developer's idea -- distribution of camps and merchandise to drive the players to them.
Guk sadly is still one of the most neglected dungeon themes. Shame really, of all of them, those are my favorite due to scenery. Guk seems to be the only "original" idea; using z-axis a lot more with tunnels that overlap other tunnels. Mind you it makes the dungeons a might harder due to visibility and navigation but it just "feels" better actually playing somewhere not quite so linear.
Click the pic for my Magelo
A shaman, warrior and rogue can plow though LDoN adventures fairly easily.
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Part of the reason why guk isn't done more is because of what gear drops at each camp. High end plate- nro, silk-BB, chain-EF, leather-EC, guk-?. There are some nice augments that come from there, but there doesn't seem to be any real incintive to going there. On TP it seemed to start all at BB and now is mostly at NRO which makes sense, over a third of the classes in EQ are plate classes and also Remove Greater Curse is sold there so almost any raiding person wants to go there and get this spell. I try and do only EF and NRO to unlock the chain and the dagger but after that i don't care where i go lol. Just look for a cleric who's lfg and you can get a group together within 5 minutes. Udaris Stabystabstab member of GOV
Im on CT and BB seems the spot for lower level folks, but EF and Nro are where I get most invites for pickup grps of 65's.
I have most of my wins in EF but the rest are spread out excluding Guk. People hate that place, and Im one of em Grabbing a necro is good advice to go there.
I also hardly ever have a cleric in my adv grp and have over 200 wins. My favorite setup is Me, Paly, Sham, Druid. We dont even bother inviteing a 5th or 6th unless friends or guldies are Lfg. We still manage to finish most adv in around 40 mins, and that taking it easy. If you have a paladin in the grp that can res if needed, then most people are ok with that if you have a solid druid and shaman with you.
I do happen to think BB is the coolest looking one of the bunch, close second is Ruj, orcs and goblins.. feels like old school D& D
I dont think they will ever change the point system. Eloco Ra'Pido
A few things I collected
I personally would like to see the points opened up and made available at any camp regardless where they are earned.
However, personal wishes aside, the system is discriminatory and Iím surprised it hasnít become an issue. The individual camps focus on different sets of classes. There are generally items for everyone at a given camp but in the end the 1492 armor is only available for a couple of classes at a particular camp. The Guk camp covers three classes, druid, monk and another that I canít remember off hand. So in order for monks to get the highest armor available they will have to spend a lot of time in Guk, which no one else wants to do. Butcherblock camps favor casters; everyone wants to do BB adventures so itís going to be easy for those classes to get their armor.
Not everyone is able to spend the time playing and earning the points needed to be able open their spending. It could take folks months upon months to get some of the harder camps worked up if they donít have the time to do three or four dungeons a night. In the end, being able to cross purchase is irrelevant; all they really want is to build the points in their camp for their armor.
Seems a bit odd that some classes would be put in the situation where their armor is so much harder to attain compared to others.
I've been pretty lucky with getting out of Mistmoore, for the most part, my adventures look like the following, guk 3 wins, everfrost 22 wins (working on this one mostly now), Mistmoore 16 wins, Ruj 17 wins (the chanter I usually group with hates that zone with a passion for some reason) and Tak, 32 wins, grand total of 6 losses, mostly I am slowly saving up for the MDOD and the +2 dmg aug for it, currently I am level 55 and am having fun with it. I have spent a ton of my adventure points already, I have gotten a mask from miragul (cheapy) earring from tak (8 str 8 sta 8 ac as I remember) Stonelinked bp/legs, and a couple of the lower proc augs, may not be the wisest choices but I do like the items so I am happy with my low end purchases.
As I am not in a raiding guild, pretty much my goal for my char is to have a MDoD and the epic for my weapons of choice.
Everfrost is 10 times easier. Sure the mistmoore pulls are a joke but it definitely takes longer to complete the average collect or slaughter. I can finish a hard EF in under 45 mins whereas a hard BB takes at least an hour.
On my server people will do whatever the leader wants for the most part. I tell people I have every theme maxed so to just do whatever people need points in. Lately that has been NRo and Guk.
BB is the easy for all types of missions. Slaughter, collect, assassinate, and even rescue. Pretty small dungeons, easy pulling. EF, on the other hand, has the crappy cavern dungeons, filled with goblins. The non-cavern ones suck as well, being long and drawn out, making them suck for rescues and assassinates. Very linear dungeons.
Anyway, on Zeb, it seems that most low levels do BB. It's the easiest and they get crap for points, so the points don't really matter anyway.
Once people are 65, BB stays popular due to ease, but EF is about equal if not more so due to FT augs, chain armor, and anger procs. It just has something for everyone. Third is Takish. People want their plate, their type 2 40 hp augs. Ruj and Guk are the least used, Guk especially. Neither really offers things with widespread appeal and Guk scares people a bit, with it's more complex dungeon design and, like Tak, a tendency for some larger pulls. Got more wins in Guk than anywhere else though
Most of the pick up group invites I get with my chanter are for Takish though.
It would make me happy if they would just provide a drop down menu when you go to select a mission....waiting 10 minutes for the rescues to go by is another time sink we don't need... Skewerz Joo
My biggest mission category is Mistmoore. Tak has about half that number. I've done 3 Miragul's missions, and one Rujarkian mission.
No Guk missions at all with my main.
Mistmoore just seems to be the commonly accepted spot to adventure. I get invites to Tak from time to time, but that's pretty much it. I've tried forming groups with others on occasion, but I can never seem to find a class to fill one of the required roles.
So lately I've shopped the idea to my guild of getting a regular group together twice a week to do adventures. Its just getting started, so its a bit early to make comments on how it works, but I expect good things from it.
Quote:It would make me happy if they would just provide a drop down menu when you go to select a mission....waiting 10 minutes for the rescues to go by is another time sink we don't need...
I'd rather see a system that adjusts the point values. If people skip rescues and do gathers...rescues become worth more, gathers less. Done individually by each camp, of course, as rescues are cake in Tak, but harder in EF.
In time, this should create a more balanced PITA versus reward.
The problem is that if you open up adv points for all camps then people will just get all their points in the theme they find easiest to churn through and never bother visiting the others at all.
Sad to say this, but the problem is the instancing of the dungeons. There's never a wait for a theme, so people keep going to the one they like best, never trying new things. Since the instancing system seems to handle 44K instances at a time regardless of theme, that's the problem. You could have 8800 instances in each theme, or all 44000 instances in Mistmoore; the instancing system could care less.
Maybe what SOE needs to do is limit the max number of instances on a per-theme basis, say 8800 instances max per theme across all servers. That way, when Mistmoore get "full" the adventure giver will say "Sorry, Acerbic, but I have no adventures for your group in Mistmore right now, although I hear from the wayfarers in Southern Ro that there is much adventure to be had in Deepest Guk" (in this case, Guk would be the currently least utilized theme). They do something to that effect, and the wealth gets spread around a bit.
Just a thought. ----------
Arbolo the druid, Acerbic the rogue, Shaemus the warrior, Cenadwen the cleric, Aberlee the "close to the ground" ranger, Wuggum the "hey, it isn't all about hate...sometimes it's just about blood splatters" shadow knight, Atomica the tiny nukergrrl, and Elfroggy the shaman ----------
I just hate sittling LFG for an hour or two at EF while being 219 points away from 1150 for the dagger. Dazzler Twodirks High Speed Quisinart for Hire
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Classes are not that out of balance -AbsorEQ
the current situation is, if you are the unlucky one which need armor in guk (ie. leather class) then you are pretty much screwed. Nro and BBM seems to be most popular. However I think EC is quite easy as well except the map stinks.
I have 6 win in hard Guk, and I still ranked 54th, yeah so popular there. LV 65 Maestro Sirinsa
LV 20 Druid Elty
Thorny, the solution to that is simple but would take more to implement. Very high xp/points for first success on a map and then having the reward go lower as you do it more often, eventually to a fixed base by the time you're just grinding. EQ however is about doing the same things long after the shiny newness has gone off and down till it's falling appart due to rust, so this is not a viable solution for this game.
I'm VERY surprised that its not alot easier to find a group for EC since it has the single augment thats most importent to endgame players and is almost the sole reason time flagged people even do LDoN...the 40hp augment.
The reason I think that Mistmoor is always the most popular is because its simply the easiest camp to reach from PoK. Its the only camp in the same zone as a PoK book besides EF and BB has the bonus of having a path so you can't get lost. So everyone congregates in BB.
I really witsh that the PoK book for Freeport had been in the EC tunnel or something, because it would have made the EC tunnel into a happening spot again.
"I'm VERY surprised that its not alot easier to find a group for EC since it has the single augment thats most importent to endgame players and is almost the sole reason time flagged people even do LDoN...the 40hp augment."
Actually, Time-Flagged folks do Miragul's, as that's where our 40hp aug drops. The EC aug is for non-Time gear. Subdued
=-Hunter of Altered State-=
The reason why Butcherblock is the most common is beacause it is the easiest.
Before I get jumped by others saying Im crazy, consider this...
If I max out my spending on Guk adventures one one item, I can use the total of all other adventures on any item in Guk. Considering Guk is the hardest, or 2nd hardest adventure next to Takish Hiz, why would I go back there to gain any points to spend? It would be much easier for me to go to Butcherblock and its easier theme and earn points, then go to Guk to spend them. I know for a fact thats what several players do once they gain the advantage of being able to buy anything they want with point totals.
I saw three different people say that once you get your 30 wins in a camp, you have it made for that camp.
Note that the fellow who initially posted is lvl 55, and so he gets 22 points per win, not 51.
So, like me, he's looking at 65 to 70 wins per camp until he dings 58 when it drops to about 38 wins per.
Not that this is undoable, but if I were 63 I'd be done in two camps already instead of half done in one and a quarter done in two others. (or 3 fifths done in one, 7 tenths in another, 13 fifteenths....ok, I'm done now)
*shrug* I'm getting xp and ldon points - life is good.
Bandena, Posterior AcupuncturistBandena's Junque
On Rallos LDoN gravitates toward mistmoore just because the low levels like it. Once you hit 60+ take your pick from where you want to go. Most groups I've found are willing to random for it. So assuming that your luck isn't ridiculously awful you will get there eventually. I have more Miraguls and North Ro wins than anything else. Mistmore is third by at least ten adventures. tak and guk I sort of avoided until I got the wins I wanted to unlock the items I wanted My Suck Gear
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Surrenders His Mastery
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Quote:I'm VERY surprised that its not alot easier to find a group for EC since it has the single augment thats most importent to endgame players and is almost the sole reason time flagged people even do LDoN...the 40hp augment.
The high end tends to group within their circle of friends or with guildies. You don't see them much as an LFG. They'll go 1 or 2 people short, no problem, if they are just grinding out wins. And why not? Even with that, they'll finish plenty early. No reason to take along an undergeared, under-AA'd unknown. Just annoying to have a cleric pouting because you zone in after she does HoV...oh no, the wimpy mobs are going to kill us all! Way too many people that give the mobs respect they don't deserve.
If they do hards, on the other hand, there's a good reason not to take along a random person and you'll be even less likely to have them invite you along.