Got a few friends that duel each other all the time (just for fun, it's a carebear server). Wizzy, monk, cleric, and twinked war. Now that I'm nearing thier level, they want to see just how pathetic rogues are..
From everything I've read, I think I'll just hit [sit] over and over to speed up the kill.
Sheesh.. had no idea rogues were so lame. oh well..
After playing a rogue for a little while I realized that they really shine in group PvP if you can keep a low profile, they're not bad in 1 vs 1 if you are able to land a few well placed backstabs on your opponent. I suggest you read Filash's retirement post in the library for some info on how to become a good rogue in PvP. I've seen Filash PvP and he rules Love,
If you're 50+ and you can't PvP decently as a rogue, something's wrong with you. Pick up a few golem wands and DS shammy potions, use your wits, and master the on-the-fly backstab and you should be fine. I assume you can CoD.
Pass through backstab, bows or throwing weapons, good jousting, regeneration, and plenty of clickies is the key. I recently took out a level 65 warrior from the top guild on my server (I'm 60) and I was at 89 percent health when he went down. 25 hp per tick standing regen, pass through backstabbing, and 200 shissar fangs didn't leave him much of a chance. Didn't even dispell him.
So yeah, if you think rogue suck that bad at dueling, work on it a bit more. With practice and good resists, you can do a lot more than you think. Heck, two days ago I took down a 59 shaman and 61 bard at the same time... drilled the shaman quick while he tried to land Malasement or something along those lines, then peppered the bard with so many Shissar Fangs that he had to retreat. Wheee!
65 Wizards nail me every time though... need to level up more so I can shake off those nukes.
But yeah, we don't suck that badly. Heck, I recently won the melee PvP tourney on my server, at one point taking two pallies and a warrior 3 on 1 (they were allowed to use LoH but no spells).
When I played Pickk on Morell Thule I was a beast in duels. I could beat all of my guilds paladins, wizards, warriors etc. I thought rogues were the best PvP class around.
Then I played on sullon and realised they suck really bad. "Frontstab" (aka pass through backstab) sounds neat and everything until you realise that the warrior you are BS does as much with his 2hs as you do with a backstab.
Defeated a bard with shissar fangs? An adequetly geared lvl 62 bard should regen around 140hp per tick. There is no way you are putting out that kind of DPS with fangs, I have hate monks try that on me and it is pretty innefective.
I played a rogue on Sullon for a long time and I eventually gave up with the resistance nerf. I could get myself to around 200 MR with just gear but sadly that wasn't enough to prevent getting snared.
Pummice, Golem Wands, Other clickies? Sounds great and will work great on blue sever duels but in reality with zero channeling skill I almost never got these off. For example Wizards have huge runes that as a rogue you would want to dispell. The problem? They have several nukes (including the lvl 1 nuke) that cast way faster than golem wands or pummice. Because we have no channeling a hit of 1 is enough to interupt every time.
Make no mistake, there are several rogues on Sullon that do very well. The main caveat is you will always be participting in group PvP and these rogues are all very well geared lvl 65's.
Well.. I'm on MT and these would be gimpy on the fly duels.
I've never dueled before, so I have little understanding of the acroynms you guys are referring to in regards to pvp.
It's just now that I'm near my peeps level, they want to try me out and see how fast each could down "the most pathetic pvp class".
From reading most posts in the forum, it seemed to confirm what most everyone says about the rog's pvp abilities. However, from what you peeps are saying it would seem on a blue server with semi-casual on the fly duels, a rogue has a fighting chance, just not in a dedicated pvp server....?
I won almost 100% of the duels I fought on Morell Thule and placed in the top three in several of those PvP tournaments the GM's used to run (btw Lirus rocked!).
For instance, lets say you are casting pummice on a druid (dmg shields suck!). On a zek the druid may just walk over to you and hit you for 1 dmg with his 1hb to interupt. On Morell Thule I don't think I ever had a caster do that to me. This of course introduces the "pummice fake" which was a favourite move of mine. Start casting pummice and when said druid comes over to hit me I quickly duck to interupt and perform a frontstab.
You will probably do perfectly fine on MT in duels. Remember that people there don't carry around resist gear (especially poison resist). Apply a spine break before hand and this should give you a good advantage as most people have bad PR on blue servers.
When fighting many melee classes you may find they just stand there and fight you like you were a mob. Make fast circles around them backstabing at every opportunity. If they lack a see invis item make sure to use hide.
There are a couple of other things that you can get to help you out. Crystaline Silk nets from CC right click a root spell that is very useful for rooting pets or players with weak MR. There is a simple quest you can do to get a right click snare ball of yarn (5 charges). It's in the warrens. Also if you have some plat to spend you may want to pick up a wrapped entropy serpent spine. It procs a blind on your opponent and makes a decent offhander for duels.
As always invest in lots of pummice and don't be afraid to use it. About the only class I would advise you stay away from is Bards as you really don't have anything to combat the skill set they bring to the fight. Even if you agree on a straight up melee fight you could be fighting someone with a 150+ dmg shield, insane resists and 150hp per tick regen (if they are extremely well geared). I also wouldn't advise fighting too many shaman, but if they are not well versed in duels you can still win.
Rogues arent that bad in pvp if you arent targeted right away and nuked down. In mass pvp rogues are great becuase most people go after clerics and chanters first. This leave rogues time to go find a nice caster to BS on <a href=http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=160264>
old pumice with 0 delay and wands owned in pvp new pumice has it uses .......... but 3 sec in true pvp makes its nearly worthless (for a pure mele) ........1st every good pvp player stacks his buffs and has 2 to 3 clickies and you should never touch their good buffs 2nd if the caster dosnt interupt it his 3 friends will
any class played well can have fun and do well in pvp ....but with insane ratios on 2hd weps and 100 plus ds rogue are realy a challenge to play
Ok so rogues don't suck, necassarily. However, gear and players certainly can! lol...
So what can I do to get a fighting chance to take out: Monk (poor gear), Wiz (avg gear+epic), war (very good gear), and cleric (good gear+epic) All peeps in their mid-late 50s.
Just impromptu duels.. Likely self buffs and/or common longer lasting buff.
I have just under 250 unused skill points. (I leveled my skills with minimum starting skill points needed.) Would I be able to get skilled up in poisons with skill points? And would any poisons I could mix up at 54llvl make much of a difference in a fight?
Stategies? My saves are so poor currently there's little way I can challenge the casters..
Preparation and experience count for a lot in duels. If you plan on duelling much, yes, you MUST work up your poison skill.
Since these are your guildmates, you should familiarize yourself with their gear. First thing to look for: who has see invis, and in what form? Second - how good are their resists (poison and magic, mainly)?
Try to think about PvP wherever you go with them. Ask yourself, "What would I do to beat Soandso right here and now?" Think ahead about how dirty you're willing to play. Are xp deaths acceptable? Is it acceptable to train them? What about dispelling Dead Man Floating on that annoying necro when fighting in Siren's Grotto? Bayler - Marauder/Deceiver - Xev
Tessally - 54 Nun of Solusek Ro - Xev
Monk: Pass through backstab, straif around a lot, joust. You need regen to match his mend. Poisons would help a ton... spine break would really change the course of the match, as would snares. Don't be afraid to use throwing weapons... monks are kitable! Damage shields also help a bit.
Wizard: You'll want a snare poison on this guy quick. Jump in and just stick to him till you can kill him... and make sure you have your resists! Dispelling early in the fight might help too.
Cleric: Same as wizard, except magic resist is all that matters. Dispell too... that can do a lot of damage to a cleric that has much of his HPs in buffs.
i fought a lvl 46 cleric with my 41 rogue and got crushed in the first part of it. he stunned,rooted,nuked (one was for almost 400) till i was 5%, then i disarmed and got him 43% till he even realized he was punching. he was quipped well also while i am average and my resist sux and i have only about 1.2k hp unbuffed and was when i fought him. i had only one clicky and it was some green poison vial i found on a merchant, heh i asked jarkell what it was cause i had never seen it. i was crushing him, a well equipped, buffed healing cleric. i strifed him like a god, i stayed at 5% for the entire time i got him passed him half way mark, but my comp sux and lags and i went down twice after he got some mana and stunned me a few times. i was laying on the groud and i wasnt dead heh. with 1% life i walked over to him (with all the excitement i forgot to even bandage or apply poison) tried to disarm and backstab and it didnt help lol.
so the point is confuse the hell out of them, do whatever makes him forget his basics, stay moving, hide even if they can see you, and get the right poisons and have some when you need them.
rogues dont suck at pvp we just gotta think differently then every one eles. its hard to be rogue and fight ppl when they can see you and you cant take damage like everyone eles, im new at rogue pvp and i still do some damn good damage.
Miner of Blackmaul Crusaders
Black Dagger of Bristlebane
First things first. Blue dueling is no judge of pvp period and if you play on a blue server and don't like how pvp is going for you I have no sympathy as any person well versed in the pvp abilities of his class should enjoy some degree of pvp success merely because of all the pvp newbies out there. Don't like it? Don't /duel and stfu.
Next golem wands are ruined man. They don't drop anymore, they ALL have a 4 second cast time and I hear they recharging now costs an obscene price. I haven't tested this due to the forementioned cast time anyway.
On to rogue pvp!
Rogues have some chance to put forth a good showing in group pvp for several reasons.
-Buffage! Hp buff makes up for our relatively low hp, MR buffage mitigates the resist nerf, and atk/haste buffs allow us to perform at our potential rather than a fraction of it.
-So long as keep a low enough profile we are able to be 100% offensive with little concern for defensive weakness. Repeatedly making use of the element of suprise to inflict nasty damage on soft targets especially those snared by poison or magic.
-Since everyone needs to keep mr way the hell up to avoid snaring followed by a quick death people tend to have a less pr making them vulnerable to another route to a quick demise at our hands.
As far as solo pvp its a rather sad thing at the high end. Seems about every other class gains hugely relative to rogues in pvp as far as aa and 60+ spells.
Before spewing diarrhea from your mouth, ya may want to actually try reading the post before yapping. Just an FYI.
1) I wan't complaining about blue server PvP. How could I? I've never fooking Pvp'd before anywhere.
2) I was complaining that (per the posts I'm reading and from what I'm told) the rogue class is "said" to be so poor at PvP.
3) All this group, staying low, jumping casters, blah blah bull is really neato.. but I'm on a blue server. I said from post one I was on a blue server and that these would be "on the fly, impromptu" duels.
Thx for the advice regardless, it doesn't apply to the situation presented, but I'm sure some readers will benefit. You could be a little less offensive though, especially since your slamming me on something that doesn't even pertain to me.
If I recall correctly at least one good guide to rogue pvp allready exists on these boards. Why don't you read it instead of whining to all and sundry. If thats too much work don't duel. Duels have always been a pale shadow of real pvp server play anyway.
Btw some few of us play rogues first and foremost even on pvp despite the inherent difficulties and disadvantages involved. Don't expect much sympathy from such as this.
LOL dude I'm a lvl 49 rogue and i dont suck at PVP at all i beat a lvl 50 war with HoV the other day and the war had decent gear heres my stragtegy you grab a sow a FAST pericer or a decent one find someone to duel preferably someone around your lvl confuse them by running around in circles get to the door act like you go in and turn a corner wait for them to get close go invis and when they send you a tell say I'm outside door cant you see me, and WHAM hit them with a BS and the fun starts just keep confusing them and keep DPS going hard if things get rough back out say afk wait till your 75% health and because warriors have so much HP its wont take you long to get up and they will still be below 70 if you got that far and just keep doing this over and over again might seem silly but its worth say "I told you so" or my person all favorite /Shout HAHAHAHA(who ever)got there but whooped by me and hes a (what ever class they are better if its a warrior)HAHAHA
ok, if rogues don't suck in pvp, who sucks more? I used to think that rogues were overpowered in pvp, but really with their low hp and ac, and @#%$ range weapons I was less likely to manaburn a rogue than any other class, if that means anything. edit: ok i lied, i'd probably have burned a rogue before a mage. by the way, this is a while back when burns were still unnerfed.
just from my limited experience:
*burners get burned
*rezzers get burned
*bards get burned
*monk trainers get burned
*healers get burned since they can outheal an equal wizards nukes
*bow kiting rangers get burned
*sk's with super ht prolly get burned alot
*rapturing and dispelling ench get burned
-rogues don't really get burned :-( i.e. they aren't really the threat in group pvp
you guys deserve to have a chance to be invis from players that have see-invis, since seeing invis is really a given for everyone on pvp servers. kindof like a 1/10 chance on sneak that you become invis to an enemy team player on sz. this way, you can up your chances of getting a stealth attack (if you are smart enough to test your invis first) like most of us expect a rogue should be able to do. Edited by: NeuroticusSZ at: 9/29/03 3:25 pm
You want blue server PvP advice. I can give it. I play on FV and duel alot.
Now, alot of people now have nice stuff compared to say, a year ago. Resists arnt hard to get up and right clickies are easy to buy.
Nice thing is, most people on blue servers dont really expect to PvP, so all thier gear is set towards grouping. Poison/Disese resists are prolly low. They would pay more attention to MR than PR.
As said before, right clickies are your best friend. Most of em are best at the start. Leave some distance between you and them, click your pumic stone. Get some good regen items, keep em equiped. CoD em and joust bs em. If your fighting a caster, stick to em hard. Dont let em get away. If you can, snag a few crystal nets and root em. They do 30ish damage when you hit em as well, so they might be interupted. Melees, well your best bet is to just take em toe to toe, CoD and joust. Monks might be able to out damage you, warriors can survive longer. Against Knights, its just about the same.
Always keep resist gear on you as well as your grouping gear. Try to get your MR to 200ish. FR/CR/PR/DR wouldnt be a bad idea to get to 150 or higher. A good source of resist gear are rings and ear rings. I've seen a nice number with +10 to +12 for each. They cost but they are worth it.
I've heard that there are healing potions out there but I havent been able to find out how they are made or where they drop. Read some place stinging wart potions were it, but I could be wrong.
Damage shields are great. Worth it against melees and doesnt hurt against pet classes either.
Remember, dmg shields work both way. Its BAD when you kill yourself on someones damage shield. Its really depressing.
Edit: Please read our sig rules. Personal pic and sig pic mustn't be more than 15 kbyte combined. - ShadowCross Edited by: Shadowcross at: 9/30/03 4:52 am
vs bard, all pure melee are gimp. I usually play with em to humor myself. The only chance a rogue has against a relatively decent bard in pvp is a lucky snare poison. Even then, a prepared bard has counters.
Some classes can pvp solo. Others are better suited to group pvp... Impresario Memek Songwyver ~ 65 Halfelf Maestro
Memak ~ 59 Iksar Master
(plus Raddz, Memakx, Memuk and a few others)
Primordial Fury ~ Mithaniel Marr
This game is fun damnit!
Bard ~ Insert beer for music.
Done a bit of PvP on Morell Thule and I have to say that that class I hate to see come at me the most is a mage with an earth pet. Those darn things proc to much!! Other than that bards are a pain for obvious reasons and then rangers because of their nice druid spell-set and the ability to do ranged DPS as well as fight toe-to-toe. All others are no prob once you penetrate thair defenses and exploit their weaknesses. "Classes are not that out of balance" - AbsorEQ
Old school rogue from Vallon here...rule 1 is all about gear. If not do as I do, pick your battles. Usually if you get the jump on them, they are pounding gate or dead. Get your MR above 160 is a must..Nothing pisses off snare classes more, and a lil Spirit of Sloth on your weapon to give them some rogue luving to make thier day. As I stated at the beginning, pick your fights, you are not Uber tank to tank peeps, use your roguely skills and stealth attack. Illusion Masks helps alot, get in a few BS before they realize masked dark Elf...